You're so a joke... cannot doubt your own genius eh !
2014-02-01 Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net>: > Jesse, > > Yes, that "being at the same point in spacetime" is CALLED the present > moment that I'm talking about. > > You are probably repeating the claim that 'coordinate time' falsifies > p-time. It doesn't. Coordinate time is an attempt to explain the obvious > problems with clock time not actually explaining a common present moment > that obviously exists. This is done by coordinate time saying OK we have to > account for the twins being at the same point in spacetime when they > compare clocks so let's just invent a coordinate system that acts as if > clock time doesn't have any effect on something we will call coordinate > time. > > Basically coordinate time is just an attempt to account for the > obviousness of a present moment without actually calling it a 2nd kind of > time but rather just a 2nd kind of spacetime coordinate system in a single > kind of time. > > Coordinate time is half way to p-time but hasn't incorporated the whole > insight... It basically says let's pretend clock time doesn't really happen > so the twins can end up at the SAME point of spacetime because it's obvious > they actually did. But then it remembers that clock time is real and actual > too because it is measurable. Therefore there is a CONTRADICTION between > coordinate time and clock time that p-time resolves by recognizing that > p-time and clock time are actually 2 separate kinds of time, which > coordinate time doesn't. > > Edgar > > > > On Saturday, February 1, 2014 11:30:26 AM UTC-5, jessem wrote: > >> >> >> On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> And of course it is OBVIOUS that the twins share a common present moment >>> when they compare clocks. Otherwise they couldn't compare clocks now could >>> they? >>> >> >> The fact that they can compare clocks, and agree for example that "twin >> A's turning 30 coincides with twin B's turning 40", is because they are >> making the comparison at the same point in spacetime (assuming ideal >> point-like observers*), and in relativity, all observers agree on which >> events coincide at the same point in spacetime (I've asked you several >> times whether you agree this is always true in relativity but you have >> refused so far to answer). Another way of putting it is that in any >> spacetime coordinate system for labeling the space and time coordinates of >> different events, the event "twin A turns 30" would have to be labeled with >> the same coordinate time (and coordinate position) as the event "twin B >> turns 40". In no way does any of this imply the notion of an objective >> "common present" for events which do NOT coincide at the same point in >> spacetime. >> >> *Of course real observers aren't point-like, but if you think of extended >> observers who compare clocks a few feet apart, there could be disagreements >> over which event happened first in precise terms (whether we're talking >> about visual observations of the events, or which event happened first in >> some inertial frame), but we can say that everyone would agree the two >> events happened within a few tiny fractions of a nanosecond from each >> other, so for all practical purposes there is no disagreement about the >> fact that twin A turning 30 coincided with twin B turning 40. >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
