On Friday, February 28, 2014 7:30:22 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: > > Craig, > > I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. The substrate is itself formless > (somewhat analogous to the concept of Tao). Within that arises all the > forms whose computational interactions compute the current state of the > universe. >
Then the substrate is not formless, is all trans-formal. All forms are produced, preserved, and dissolved within it, through it, for it, etc. The substrate is sense - the capacity for appreciation and participation which records itself as form. Information is what sense does and knows, not what it is and experiences. > These computations compute on the basis of the laws of nature which in > this model are just as much a part of reality as the information states > they compute. > If the substrate is sense, then you don't need to have laws of nature. Sense is intrinsically sensible. It acts lawfully as well as spontaneously and creatively. It cheats at its own rules and then pretends to forget that it cheated. > > So what we call physics is how humans mentally model and try to understand > this system in terms of their H-math. Or if you wanted you could say that > R-computations are the actual R-physics to distinguish that from H-physics. > I agree, but I'm saying that what we call information is how humans mentally model and try to understand how the system is measured in terms of their H-Math. The R is not physics or computation, it is aesthetic participation. R-Math is a silhouette of that which we mistake for the essence. Math is not the essence of consciousness or presence, it is the essence of distance and absence. Craig > > Edgar > > > On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:34:10 PM UTC-5, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, February 28, 2014 5:04:29 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: >>> >>> John, >>> >>> I agree that the substrate that information manifests in is NOT >>> physical, it is abstract in the sense of no physicality. But the >>> information that constitutes the universe is REAL, so the substrate it >>> exists within is the real actual presence of existence itself. That's what >>> brings it to life and makes it real and actual... >>> >> >> If the real actual presence of 'existence' itself is what brings >> information to life and makes it real and actual, why isn't that substrate >> what we call physics and what REALLY constitutes the universe? If >> information cannot be or do anything without the substrate, then how can we >> say that information is the important part? >> >> >> >>> >>> And yes that's me. Thanks for your kind comment! >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> On Friday, February 28, 2014 3:54:19 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 8:26 AM, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote: >>>> >>>> > information does need a substrate in which to manifest. >>>>> >>>> >>>> That seems to be the case but perhaps not at the very lowest level. The >>>> integers are abstract things that aren't made of anything except other >>>> numbers and once you describe how they interact with other mathematical >>>> objects you've said all there is to say about them. In the same way in >>>> string theory the strings aren't made of anything and they have reality >>>> only in how they interact with other strings; so perhaps at the >>>> fundamental >>>> level reality not only can be described mathematically but actually IS >>>> mathematical. >>>> >>>> On a completely different subject, are you Edgar Owen the antiquities >>>> dealer? If so you have a pretty cool job. >>>> >>>> John K Clark >>>> >>>> >>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
