On Thu, Jun 26, 2014 at 10:55 AM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
>>> We use the usual sense of self defined by the "yes doctor". >>> >> >> >> Nobody does that, even you don't do that to define yourself except >> when you're arguing philosophy on the internet. >> > > > ? > ! > We use that all the time. I do it just now to reply to you. > As I said, even you don't do that to define yourself, except when you're arguing philosophy on the internet. >> There is no choice, if probability is to be derived its got to be >> iterated, and no matter how often you iterate it Mr. You ALWAYS sees Moscow >> only AND Mr. You ALWAYS sees Washington only; >> > > > This contradicts 2^n - 1 diaries > It most certainly does NOT, because MR. YOU HAS BEEN DUPLICATED! > The WWWWW-john Clark will be force to change its mind, Only if John Clark is a dimwit, I don't think he is but opinions vary. > unless he confuse "him" [...] > Quotation marks don't help, who the hell is Mr. Him ? > "him" as the owner of this or that particular diary. Then Mr. Him is not the same as Mr. You, the original question was about Mr. You so why even talk to Mr. Him. > Both the W-person and the M-person are the H-person, > Yes, but the W-person is not the M-person. >> In the 2 slit experiment it's always crystal clear who Mr. You is, >> > > > I don't see that. In Everett, if I put you in the state M+W [...] > That's a cool superpower you have there, but how do I know it's real? You claim to have done something spectacular but I still only see one person around here that looks like me, that's why in everyday life personal pronouns cause no problems and never will until duplicating machines are actually invented. > you can't > Who can't? > predict with certainlty the unique city you will see The city who will see? >> The 2 slit experiment is about what a observer will see, Bruno's thought >> experiment is about the sense of self of the observer. >> > > > Wrong. It is about what an observer will see. You push a button, and > open a door, and note which unique city you see > Wrong. What the observer sees changes the sense of self, seeing Moscow is the one and only thing that changed the Helsinki man into the Moscow man and is the only thing that differentiates him from the Washington man, he saw a different city. >> Not that predictions are of the slightest importance in this matter but >> if we're talking about the Helsinki Man (aka the man currently seeing >> Helsinki) and the Helsinki Man is destroyed after the duplication then the >> correct prediction about what the Helsinki Man will see would obviously be >> absolutely nothing. >> > > > that would contradict step one, and step 0, which you have accepted. > Fortunately I've long ago forgotten what step 0 is but if Mr. Helsinki is the guy currently seeing Helsinki and you destroy the guy currently seeing Helsinki then obviously Mr. Helsinki is now seeing absolutely nothing, although Mr. You is doing just fine and is seeing Washington AND Moscow. >> If on the other hand we're talking about what Mr. You will see (and yes >> from Mr. You's first person perspective) then the correct prediction would >> be Moscow AND Washington and perhaps Helsinki. >> > > > Not from the 1-view. > The? Who's 1-view? > I do provides the nuances needed (notably the 1/3 distinction) to avoid > any ambiguity. > Then why is Bruno Marchal so addicted to personal pronouns, why is Bruno Marchal incapable of expressing a single idea without the liberal use of them? > >> And as I explained Bruno Marchal must already believe that both Mr. M > and Mr. W are both Mr. You, otherwise there would be no point in > interviewing them. > > Yes. this has been clear all long, and makes my point. That is why we have > to interview them both. > That makes no sense. If you want to answer the question "are there any red marbles in this black bag?" and you reach into the bad and pull out a red marble then it is not necessary to reach in again to answer the question. If the Moscow Man is Mr. You then the probability Mr. You will see Moscow is 1.0, and if the Moscow Man is not Mr. You then there is no point in asking him about anything. > making them impossible to predict which one in particular, they will > actually see. > Which one?? Beforehand there is only one. The Moscow Man only becomes the Moscow Man when he sees Moscow, before that he was the Helsinki Man, therefore I predict the Moscow Man will be the Moscow Man. I'll bet my prediction will turn out to be correct. And if you ask I'll give you my prediction about the Washington man. > >> Mr. You has written W in Mr. You's diary AND Mr. You has written M in >> Mr. You's diary; and if you don't believe me I can prove it, both diaries >> are right here. >> > > > Exactly. It makes my point. None write "W and M". > Absolutely false, Mr. You wrote W and M plane as day and I've got the diaries to prove it. 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