On 01 Jul 2014, at 06:35, LizR wrote:
ISTM...
In primitive materialism, what exists are space / time and matter /
energy. Information is an emergent property of the arrangements of
those things, like entropy. Neither of these exist at the level of
fundamental particles, or Planck cells, or strings, or whatever else
may be the primitive mass-energy/space-time) involved.
There are problems with this view if information has primitive
status, which would indicate that the real picture is something like
"it from bit" or what might be called "primitive informationism".
Evidence for PI come from the entropy of black holes, the black hole
information paradox, the Landauer limit, the Beckenstein bound, the
holographic principle, and (unless I already covered that) the
requirement that erasing a bit of information requires some
irreducible amount of energy. (And maybe some other things I don't
know about ... perish the thought).
Shannon's notion of information, and Kolmogorov-Chaitin-Solovay
notions of information are purely mathematical (and usually definable
in arithmetic, but non computable). But quantum information, despite a
rather precise mathematical formulation, will be considered as much
physical as the quantum reality can be, and might be more primitive in
some attempt to unify the physical laws.
PI isn't equivalent to comp, but from what you said above PI might
be a necessary consequence of comp, which would give the
"ontological chain" arithmetic -> consciousness -> information ->
matter (I think ... this is all "ISTM" of course).
The question is to interpret that correctly. usually I just prefer to
ignore the word "information" as it is a tricky word, having many
sense, from the 3p Shannon notion to the 1p human content-full beliefs
"informed" with the news, called in french "information", like in "TV
information".
I would see a lot of intermediate 3p information coming logically
"before" consciousness. The UD, and thus the sigma_1 sentences can be
said to handle a lot of information in the 3p sense, but
consciousness, or just the 1p "creates" the information when it
differentiates, like looking at an alternate possibilities of the type
W v M, in self-multiplication (on all relevant sigma_1 sentences).
Roughly, the difference between classical and quantum information is
that the classical information is entirely determined above your
substitution level, and the quantum information is entirely determined
by the infinities of computations below your substitution level. QM
becomes an empirical evidences that there is a very stable first
person plural reality, of the type we have to justify by the person
points of view modalities.
As for A Garrett Lisi, I was under the impression that his particles
were something like a "point in a weight diagram" - or something -
which sounds to me at least like some form of information theoretic
entity. But I have to admit my understanding of how birds and
flowers could emerge from the E8 group or whatever it's called is,
well, about like this...
Beautiful mathematics, and I tend to believe in this and E8, and the
Monster group, Moonshine, ...
Normally the arithmetical quantization should justify those groups.
The advantage of comp is that it unifies not just all what we see, but
also all a large part of what we don't see.
(By the Solovay G/G* difference and its intensional variants).
Bruno
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