On 25 Nov 2014, at 06:56, LizR wrote:
On 25 November 2014 at 16:54, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 11/24/2014 5:36 PM, LizR wrote:
On 25 November 2014 at 13:41, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't think we need to worry about intelligent machines. A
smartphone is fairly intelligent, for example, at doing what it
does. Conscious machines, which (according to Bruno, at least) are
possible, are another matter.
From a practical operational standpoint it doesn't matter if a
machine (or one of my fellow human beings) is conscious or not, all
that matters is if it can outsmart me or not. And by the way, if
you think that "smartphone" is more than just a name for a certain
type of phone and is really smart then why don't you think it's
conscious too? It's almost as if you believe that consciousness is
harder to achieve than intelligence.
We've made intelligent machines, but I don't know of any conscious
ones (except those nature has produced, I mean)
But do you know we have not made any conscious ones?
No, of course I don't, how could I? I said I wasn't aware of any.
> The main difference being that conscious beings have their own
objectives.
But even if a intelligent being is not conscious (something I am
quite sure is not possible) it would have tendencies to act in one
way rather than another determined by the thoughts (call them
information streams if you like euphemisms) flowing through its
brain; and the more intelligent the being is the harder it would be
for you to understand them. And those thoughts may very often have
absolutely positively nothing to do with your best interests.
Looks like you are using an unusual definition of consciousness, so
I will pass on this discussion.
What do you consider the usual definition of consciousness? Is it
"having an inner narrative" (per Julian Jaynes)? Perceiving and
reacting to surroundings? Understanding Lob's theorem?
I believe it's to do with awareness of one's self and surroundings,
or something like that, but I'm not an expert and maybe you have a
better definition? What I do know is that it isn't just another word
for intelligence, which is what I was objecting to (as the quote
above shows).
I agree that consciousness is not intelligence. I insist also to
distinguish intelligence from competence.
You need consciousness to develop intelligence, and you need
intelligence to develop competence.
Then competence has a negative feedback on intelligence and on
conscience, which is close to consciousness.
An entity can be competent, without intelligence nor consciousness,
A entity can be conscious, without intelligence nor competence,
An entity can be intelligent, without competence (but it still needs
consciousness).
I would say,
Bruno
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