On 04 Jan 2015, at 00:30, Kim Jones wrote:
On 4 Jan 2015, at 2:47 am, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
But this "fearing of God" is a mystery to me. God should be good.
Only the devil should be feared. (between us).
Is the devil "not-God"?
Yes, we can say that in the Platonic context where the God is The
Truth. Then the Devil is the False.
As such it does not "exist" in Platonia, but it can "almost exist" in
the mind of the existing creature, and operate from there. This is due
to the existence of false, yet consistent, proposition, relatively to
"models" or "local realities".
Is it not that "fear of the devil" is the same as the fear of God
(in some sense)?
At the conceptual level, yes. Because once you have one, you have the
other.
But we don't live at that conceptual level, and you better fear an
hammer on the finger (example of bad, that is what the devil
practically does) than a cup of coffee (as example of good, what God
practically does).
Of course I assume the platonist link between God and Good here. that
is not clear at all when you interview the universal machine (even
with good being defined through self-survival ability).
Who or what IS this devil character anyway? Is such a concept
necessary?
I'm afraid yes, in its most primitive sense of bad. As you say, for a
platonist the ideas exist, and for a computationalists, they all have
an infinity of Gödel numbers, or relative programs, or relative
engrams, relative to some universal number(s). With computationalism,
you cannot escape the fact that some solution of diophantine equations
incarnate hellish experiences.
Then the higher level devil is just a poetical view of the idea of the
"moral bad thing", or even the more general idea, and easier to define
(as non linked to moral issue) that in a reality where you can augment
the good for everybody, i.e. harm reduction for everybody, there will
be situations where individuals or groups of individuals can
accelerate the augmentation of their good by deceiving those outside
the group: it is stupid in the sense of going from a win/win game to a
win-a-lot/loss-a-lot game, but it makes sense locally, and nature does
that a lot of times itself.
It is a sort of constant prisoner dilemma. It is part of the nature of
life, at the border between the computable and the non-computable.
(from 3-1p: the sigma_1 leafs of the universal dovetailer versus its
"complement" in arithmetic).
It is an intrinsic weakness of God, It can't make the devil disappear,
but It can help to make it apparent, and locally controllable, when
tolerated in some proportion, or through representations.
<>[]f (G*)
<><>f (Z1*)
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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