On Mon, Feb 2, 2015 at 10:56 PM, Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> wrote:
> > On 02 Feb 2015, at 06:37, Samiya Illias wrote: > > > > On 02-Feb-2015, at 6:12 am, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > On 2 February 2015 at 00:15, Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> >> >> On Sun, Feb 1, 2015 at 1:01 PM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> There is a difference between advancing a theory in a spirit of >>> agnosticism and being convinced you know the truth and that everyone else >>> is wrong. >>> >> >> Hmm... >> Someday, I hope and pray, when you're blessed with faith, perhaps you'll >> understand me. >> > > > As other observed that's close to the worst authority argument. By "worst" > I don't make a moral judgment, but it is worst in the sense that it is not > just invalid, but it makes the honest people automatically doubting your > message. > I am not presenting an argument above. I'm just saying that this is something to do with feeling/experiencing/qualia? so I cannot explain it nor do I expect anyone who doesn't to understand it. I know its not valid. That is why I hope Someday... > > > >> And vice versa, if you are blessed with faith in reason. > > > Thanks! :) > > > Reason is the best tool, if not the only tool (at some level) > I agree. Reason is a tool, and perhaps the best tool, which is to be used to approach reality. > to survive the unreasonable (arithmetical) reality, and to maximize > partial relative control. > > Unfortunately "reason" gives the ability to lie and manipulate the others > at different levels. > Both reason and religion have been abused over and over again > > Then reason shows that arithmetic is already full of life, indeed full of > an infinity of universal machines competing to provide your infinitely many > relatively consistent continuations. > > Incompleteness imposes, at least formally, a soul (a first person), an > observer (a first person plural), a "god" (an independent simple but deep > truth) to any machine believing in the RA axioms together with enough > induction axioms. I know you believe in them. > > The lexicon is > p truth God > []p provable Intelligible (modal logic, G and G*) > []p & p the soul (modal logic, S4Grz) > []p & <>t intelligible matter (with p sigma_1) (modal logic, Z1, Z1*) > []p & sensible matter (with p sigma_1) (modal logic, X1, X1*) > > You need to study some math, > I have been wanting to but it seems such an uphill task. Yet, its a mountain I would like to climb :) > to see that this give eight quite different view the universal machines > develop on themselves. > Reminds me of this verse [http://quran.com/69/17 ]: *And the angels are at its edges. And there will bear the Throne of your Lord above them, that Day, eight [of them]. * It provides a universal person, with a soul, consistent extensions, > beliefs, and some proximity (or not) to God (which is the "ultimate" > semantic that the machine cannot entirely figure out by herself (hence the > faith). > Interesting! Samiya > > If you want to convince me, you have to first convince the universal > person associated to the Löbian machine, I'm afraid. > > I am not pretending that the machine theology applies to us, but it is a > good etalon to compare the theologies/religions/reality-conceptions. The > problem is that we have to backtrack to Plato, where what we see is only > the border of something, that we can't see, but yet can intuit and talk > about (a bit like mathematics or music) > > Bruno > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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