On 4/24/2018 11:48 AM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:26:59 PM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 6:14:49 PM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 4/24/2018 9:24 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 4:10:30 PM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 4/24/2018 12:03 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, April 24, 2018 at 5:14:25 AM UTC, scerir wrote:
According to Kennedy tensor product (in QM) has a
very interesting story.
https://philpapers.org/rec/KENOTE
<https://philpapers.org/rec/KENOTE>
On the empirical foundations of the quantum
no-signalling proofs
<https://philpapers.org/go.pl?id=KENOTE&proxyId=&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdx.doi.org%2F10.1086%2F289885>
J. B. Kennedy <https://philpapers.org/s/J.%20B.%20Kennedy>
/Philosophy of Science
<https://philpapers.org/asearch.pl?pub=827>/ 62
(4):543-560 (1995)
Abstract
I analyze a number of the quantum no-signalling proofs
(Ghirardi et al. 1980, Bussey 1982, Jordan 1983, Shimony
1985, Redhead 1987, Eberhard and Ross 1989, Sherer and
Busch 1993). These purport to show that the EPR
correlations cannot be exploited for transmitting
signals, i.e., are not causal. First, I show that these
proofs can be mathematically unified; they are disguised
versions of a single theorem. Second, I argue that these
proofs are circular.*The essential theorem relies upon
the tensor product representation for combined systems,
which has no physical basis in the von Neumann axioms.*
Historically, the construction of this representation
scheme by von Neumann and Weyl built no-signalling
assumptions into the quantum theory. Signalling between
the wings of the EPR-Bell experiments is unlikely but is
not ruled out empirically by the class of proofs considered
Wow! Thank you. It costs $10 to get a copy for a
non-member, but very likely well worth it IMO. AG
I wouldn't pay $0.01 for a paper written by a guy who
says something is not ruled out /*empirically*/ by some
/*mathematical proofs*/, and says something has no
/*physical*/ basis in */axioms/*. He seems very
confused about the difference between mathematics and
empiricism.
Brent
I'll pay the money and see what he has to say. He's saying
the tensor product states do not follow from the axioms of
QM. Seems pretty clear even if wrong. But you can save me the
fee if you can clearly state how the tensor product states
follow from First Principles, that is, from the postulates of
QM. AG
Physics isn't mathematics. It's not required to derive
everything from a few axioms. The mathematics is invented to
describe the physics, no the other way around. If you want to
understand the use of the tensor product in quantum mechanics
read this:
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-05-quantum-physics-ii-fall-2013/lecture-notes/MIT8_05F13_Chap_08.pdf
<https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/physics/8-05-quantum-physics-ii-fall-2013/lecture-notes/MIT8_05F13_Chap_08.pdf>
Equation 1.20 answers your question about singlets.
Brent
Thanks. This looks good. AG
**
*I can't copy and paste some pertinent paragraphs of the pdf scerir
sent me, but from reading some of Kennedy's claims, he seem to be
saying that although he doesn't dispute the validity and usefulness of
tensor products in quantum mechanics, unlike other quantum axioms
which ARE empirically based, tensor products are NOT empirically
based. Perhaps your link says otherwise. AG*
Read this and then tell me what "empirically based" means
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/2fb0/4475228ff385a44a16e3ba42b432d3bf5b17.pdf
As far as I know the only empirical basis for a theory is that it always
gives the right answer when empirically tested. Kennedy seems to have a
strange concept of circular reasoning. He says that adopting an
equation that implies no-signaling and then using it to prove quantum
theory avoids FTL signaling is circular. He misses the point that the
reason for adopting the no-signaling is the empirical success of special
relativity, which would be violated by FTL signaling.
Brent
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