On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:59 PM, John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 8:04 PM, Jason Resch <jasonre...@gmail.com> wrote: > > *>Study what diophantine equations are capable of (for example, >> considers the examples I provided in my original post), and you will see >> they possess an unlimited working memory.* >> > > I did and I'll be damned if I understand how all the Diophantine equations > in the world put together can store one bit of information, much less a > unlimited amount, you certainly never said how on earth they could do it, > and the scientists at Intel can't figure out how to do it either that's why > they're still using silicon. > These things take time to understand. Start with "Meta Math!" by Chaitin: https://arxiv.org/abs/math/0404335 > > > >> > >> *I also recommend reading Gregory Chaitin's book* >> > > Gregory Chaitin is on record saying that he doesn't think the Real Numbers > exist, > There are plenty of reasons to doubt real numbers. But the real numbers aren't needed for arithmetical computation. > and his book describes calculations but it can't make calculations any > better than the books Bruno recommends. > Do you see any difference between a computation that occurs in another physical universe and a computation necessary to get the information about the result into your brain? What is that difference, fundamentally? > > > > >> Special relativity strongly suggests that our physical existence is >> similarly timeless, it is unchanging and unchangeable, a static >> four-dimensional block universe. >> > > If we're talking about consciousness its irrelevant what things are like > from a objective viewpoint because subjectively time is the single most > important characteristic of existence. > Subjectivity is important and should be explained, but that doesn't make the objective irrelevant. If the objective theory says that an objectively timeless structure can give rise to a subjectivity that contains the illusion of time, then we should not demand an objective theory of reality which contains time as an objectively real feature. > > *>If, as you say, anything goes, why are the only solutions to the >> Fibonacci yielding Diophantine equation I posted, only crank out the >> correct answers?* >> > > Those equations don't crank out anything unless there is matter to form a > crank and energy to turn the crank, otherwise the equations just sit on the > printed page inert and dead. > The equation does nothing, the relation it describes does everything. (Just like the physics equations in your text book are ineffectual, what matters is the object described by the equations). > > > >> Why does the Deep-Blue equation, only crank out the correct chess move >> that Deep Blue would make? >> > > The Deep-Blue equation doesn't crank out anything either unless its put > into Deep Blue machine. And even then nothing will happen unless the > machine is connected to the electrical power grid. > > That step is required if you want to get the solutions into your brain. Its not needed to create the computations, which exist as a fundamental feature of reality. Assume there are two physical, A and B. You and I are in physical reality A. In physical universe B, a computation was run that enumerated every possible Deep Blue chess move. Would you still claim that Deep Blue's computations don't exist anywhere in reality, because we in universe A, still need to build a computer to access the results of the computations performed in universe B? > > >> > >> *Recursive functions often have the property of slightly permuting the >> input with each invocation. * >> > > > And > each invocation > requires matter and each > invocation > requires energy. > > > >> John Conway's game of life exists in the world of pure numbers >> > > No it does not. Conway invented the game using hos physical brain. And the > like pattern remains static unless it's run on a computer or laboriously > computed by a human and played by hand. Hawking asked "What is it that > breathes fire into the equations?", the answer is matter and energy. > > > What keeps it going? If computation (as you say) requires energy, what is computing the evolution of the physical universe? Some higher level universe with a computer in it using electricity? Where does it stop? Jason -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
