On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 6:07:41 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 10:47:08 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 3:55:16 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com >> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 8:43:55 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 2:05:04 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 6:49:51 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 12:17:08 PM UTC-6, >>>>>> agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 6:00:50 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 8:43:35 AM UTC-6, >>>>>>>> agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 9:27:46 AM UTC, Philip Thrift >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Monday, November 26, 2018 at 3:43:14 PM UTC-6, >>>>>>>>>> agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> *I checked the postulates in Feynman's Sums Over Histories (in >>>>>>>>>>> link provided by Phil) and I see nothing related to waves, as >>>>>>>>>>> expected, and >>>>>>>>>>> thus nothing about collapse of anything. I would suppose the same >>>>>>>>>>> applies >>>>>>>>>>> to Heisenberg's Matrix Mechanics; no waves, no collapse. I suppose >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> could say they just produce correct probabilities, and imply >>>>>>>>>>> nothing about >>>>>>>>>>> relative states other than their probabilities (which wave >>>>>>>>>>> mechanics does), >>>>>>>>>>> but certainly nothing about consciousness. To summarize: you're >>>>>>>>>>> right that >>>>>>>>>>> they are "no collapse" theories, but IMO they say nothing about >>>>>>>>>>> consciousness. AG* >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> In terms of the path-integral (PI) interpretation [ interesting >>>>>>>>>> lecture: >>>>>>>>>> https://www.perimeterinstitute.ca/videos/path-integral-interpretation-quantum-mechanics >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ], there is in effect no waves or wave function, just paths, or >>>>>>>>>> histories, >>>>>>>>>> in the sum-over-histories (SOH) terminology. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> There is still "decoherence" in the SOH (a single history is >>>>>>>>>> ultimately "realized"), but it could be called "selection": a single >>>>>>>>>> history is selected from the total ensemble of multiple and >>>>>>>>>> interfering >>>>>>>>>> histories. E.g. a single point on a screen is "hit" by a photon in >>>>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>>> double-slit experiment. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> *Does "selection" add any insight to the measurement problem; that >>>>>>>>> is, why do we get what we get? And if not, what is its value? TIA, AG >>>>>>>>> * >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you look at it as a "selection of the fittest" (one history >>>>>>>> surviving from an ensemble of histories), then it's like a form of >>>>>>>> quantum >>>>>>>> Darwinism. The quantum substrate is a cruel world where all histories >>>>>>>> (but >>>>>>>> one) die. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's not an explanation; rather, a vacuous statement of the >>>>>>> result. AG >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> But that is a criticism of Darwinism (*natural selection*) in >>>>>> general. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *Ridiculous comparison IMO. Darwinism posits a changing environment >>>>> and competition among species for niches. Nothing comparable in Quantum >>>>> Darwinism other than all outcomes fail except for one which succeeds in >>>>> each single trial, which we knew from the get-go. AG* >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> *Quantum Darwinism* is a theory claiming to explain the emergence of >>>>>> the classical world >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_physics>from >>>>>> the quantum world <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics> as >>>>>> due to *a process of **Darwinian >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Darwin> natural selection >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_selection>*; where the many >>>>>> possible quantum states >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_states> are selected against >>>>>> in favor of a stable pointer state >>>>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointer_state>. >>>>>> [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Darwinism ] >>>>>> >>>>>> - pt >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> As for "competition for niches", the histories are in a sense >>>> competing. Perhaps there is some conservation principle at work, so only >>>> one history can win. >>>> >>>> I don't know. Physicists don't know. We're even. :) >>>> >>> >>> *Darwin had a theory or proposal to explain why some changes occur and >>> persist, but Quantum Darwinism doesn't, as far as I can tell. AG * >>> >>>> >>>> - >>>> >>> >> What was the "why" of Darwin's theory? >> > > *Darwin didn't know about DNA, but he hypothesized that specie could > change in time, and he could explain the persistence of some traits and > non-persistence of others by the process of natural selection. In Quantum > Darwinism, there is no concept AFAICT that explains why all paths but one > cease to exist. There is nothing comparable to Darwin's natural selection. > AG * > >> >> >>
The analogy (mapping) between biological selection and quantum selection isn't perfect. But there is no better idea. - pt -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
