On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:01:07 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Dec 2018, at 07:57, Bruce Kellett <bhkel...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 5:42 PM <agrays...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: > >> On Tuesday, December 18, 2018 at 5:31:06 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> >>> But we are talking about definitions of objects, not axioms of a theory. >>> We know that any axiomatic theory will necessarily be incomplete -- there >>> will be formulae in the theory that are neither theorems nor the negation >>> of theorems. >>> >> >> *Based on the examples I previously offered, that QM and SR are axiomatic >> theories, can we conclude they're incomplete? AG* >> > > Such theories of physics are not axiomatic theories. The things you > referred to are broad principles, not axioms. > > > That is right. Most theories in math and physics are not axiomatic. >
*Concerning physics, nonsense! There's no difference between "the general principles" defining quantum mechanics and SR, and the "axioms" defining these theories. In SR, the genius of Einstein in 1905 was to put the theory on an axiomatic basis which rendered Lorentz's ether theory irrelevant. AG* The same for mathematical logic: where formal axiomatic are the subject > matter, but all proofs are given informally (with the notable exception of > principle mathematica). > > Now, if we formalise a bit of quantum mechanics, we get quickly a theory > rich enough to define universal machine or numbers, so QM, when seen > formally, is incomplete for arithmetic. That does not mean that it is > incomplete for physics, a notion which is also not very well defined. For > SR? It will depends largely how we formalise it. > > Bruno > > > > > Bruce > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
