Re: "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and "all matter is conscious"
I do think the first (human brains at least, and perhaps some non-human brains, from primates to down* the "food-chain"). Some think there was no fully or cognitively conscious (only a sensory conscious) human before language. There may be something to that. But not the second (where there is self and self-awareness). *Rocks are not conscious.* But the idea is that all matter does have some level of *elementary protoconsciousness* in various types, phases, and configurations of matter. When some matter is combined into certain configurations (like a human brain), these *protopsychical parts* are fused into something conscious. * Do Insects Have Consciousness and Ego? *The brains of insects are similar to a structure in human brains, which could show a rudimentary form of consciousness* https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/ I don't think that societies are conscious, the Earth is conscious, the universe is conscious. The Earth is aware of itself? I don't think so. @philipthrift On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:25:26 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: > > You keep trotting out the term "cybernetic delusion" as if it's a problem. > But it's just an assumption I make, that consciousness is identified with > cybernetic dynamics. I'm exploring the consequences of that idea, which are > compelling IMO. > > You or anyone else can feel free to adopt or not adopt that assumption. > But it's not a delusion. Calling it that suggests there's a more correct > way to view consciousness. But you haven't been clear about what that is, > vacillating between "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and > "all matter is conscious". If you adopt panpsychism, you fall prey to the > cybernetic delusion yourself. And when you don't, *you fail to explain > what privileges certain kinds of matter over others*. It seems pretty > clear to me that there's no principled way to do that... any explanation of > why brains can be conscious but not computers starts to sound suspiciously > like "spirit" and "soul", in the sense that you're invoking some property > of matter that cannot be detected. > > Terren > > On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 4:57 AM <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 8:30:00 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:15 PM 'Cosmin Visan' < >>> everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> *> What happens in cases of telepathy is [...]. For example, in cases of >>>> dream telepathy [...] This clearly is a case of dream telepathy.* >>>> >>> >>> OK, there was little doubt before but you just made it official, Cosmin >>> Visan is a crackpot. >>> >>> John K Clark >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Telepathy I doubt pretty bigly, but the cybernetic delusion is a really >> crackpot idea. >> >> @philipthrift >> >> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to everyth...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
