If you encountered a close friend who had to get a computer
replacement for his brain (e.g. due to an inoperable tumor),
and this friend displayed perfect mimicry of the behavior
prior to the surgery, would you continue to tell him he his
not conscious, despite his protestations that he is every
bit as conscious as before? On what basis would this your
claim rest?
Jason
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 1:33 PM <cloudver...@gmail.com
<mailto:cloudver...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Re: "only certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and
"all matter is conscious"
I do think the first (human brains at least, and perhaps
some non-human brains, from primates to down* the
"food-chain").
Some think there was no fully or cognitively conscious
(only a sensory conscious) human before language. There
may be something to that.
But not the second (where there is self and
self-awareness). *Rocks are not conscious.* But the idea
is that all matter does have some level of *elementary
protoconsciousness* in various types, phases, and
configurations of matter. When some matter is combined
into certain configurations (like a human brain), these
*protopsychical parts* are fused into something conscious.
* Do Insects Have Consciousness and Ego?
/The brains of insects are similar to a structure in
human brains, which could show a rudimentary form of
consciousness/
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/
<https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/do-insects-have-consciousness-ego-180958824/>
I don't think that societies are conscious, the Earth is
conscious, the universe is conscious.
The Earth is aware of itself? I don't think so.
@philipthrift
On Sunday, May 5, 2019 at 8:25:26 AM UTC-5, Terren
Suydam wrote:
You keep trotting out the term "cybernetic delusion"
as if it's a problem. But it's just an assumption I
make, that consciousness is identified with
cybernetic dynamics. I'm exploring the consequences
of that idea, which are compelling IMO.
You or anyone else can feel free to adopt or not
adopt that assumption. But it's not a delusion.
Calling it that suggests there's a more correct way
to view consciousness. But you haven't been clear
about what that is, vacillating between "only
certain kinds of matter can be conscious" and "all
matter is conscious". If you adopt panpsychism, you
fall prey to the cybernetic delusion yourself. And
when you don't, /you fail to explain what privileges
certain kinds of matter over others/. It seems
pretty clear to me that there's no principled way to
do that... any explanation of why brains can be
conscious but not computers starts to sound
suspiciously like "spirit" and "soul", in the sense
that you're invoking some property of matter that
cannot be detected.
Terren
On Sun, May 5, 2019 at 4:57 AM <cloud...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Saturday, May 4, 2019 at 8:30:00 PM UTC-5,
John Clark wrote:
On Sat, May 4, 2019 at 9:15 PM 'Cosmin
Visan' <everyth...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
/> What happens in cases of telepathy is
[...]. For example, in cases of dream
telepathy[...] This clearly is a case of
dream telepathy./
OK, there was little doubt before but you
just made it official, Cosmin Visanis a
crackpot.
John K Clark
/
/
//
Telepathy I doubt pretty bigly, but the
cybernetic delusion is a really crackpot idea.
@philipthrift
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