On 5/16/2019 1:54 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, May 16, 2019 at 9:00 AM 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:On 5/16/2019 5:52 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:This is what I call one form of *consciousness denial* https://www.nybooks.com/daily/2018/03/13/the-consciousness-deniers/ in that information processing absent actual /first-class/ entities of qualia (or experiences) can only produce zombies. One needs information processing operating in a /material substrate/ where those entities are available to be combined and manipulated.You still need to explain why your elbow isn't conscious.Before that we need to demonstrate that the elbow isn't consciousness. E.g., it can exhibit reflexes to simuli without involving the brain.
It's just an example. Let's not get caught up in hairsplitting. So if you think exhibiting reflexes is the critereon for consciousness, consider the example of someone who has held their breath for fifteen minutes.
Brent
Jason Brent@philipthrift On Thursday, May 16, 2019 at 7:05:53 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: The question is why does it supervene on the brain and not on the elbow. What about the brain causes it to "make experiences"? Most scientists think it is because the brain does computations, i.e. information processing, which is more extensive and complex that the elbow does. Which leads to Bruno's argument that if it is the information processing that produces mind, then mind can be instantiated by any sufficiently complex computer+program. Since he believes in arithmetical realism, and since all possible computations exist implicitly in arithmetic, it follows that all possible thoughts already exist in arithmetic and we can explain reality as some particular subset of those thoughts. Brent On 5/16/2019 12:54 AM, Philip Thrift wrote:On Wednesday, May 15, 2019 at 6:55:08 PM UTC-5, Bruce wrote: mind supervenes on the brain Bruce The heart* pumps blood. The brain pumps experiences. The brain is an experience pump! * Actually it's more complex: blood cells are made in bone marrow signaled by the kidneys and recycled by the spleen. Do it's kidneys+marrow+spleen+heart that make and pump blood. The brain makes and pumps experiences. @philipthrift-- You received this message because you are subscribed to theGoogle Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9f7ff9f1-a20f-4bc3-baee-a9f01dfb1a62%40googlegroups.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9f7ff9f1-a20f-4bc3-baee-a9f01dfb1a62%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9e0808a5-ea3c-2de0-defd-381fe843afa1%40verizon.net <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/9e0808a5-ea3c-2de0-defd-381fe843afa1%40verizon.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. --You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com <mailto:everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUjxKVJuJnEaq27MXooHt3conDuuvo3cZ0jdkJathL9hWg%40mail.gmail.com <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CA%2BBCJUjxKVJuJnEaq27MXooHt3conDuuvo3cZ0jdkJathL9hWg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
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