Do as you wish, if it makes you feel better... I don't think insulting is useful, and a list like this one should be free of it, but instead here disagreement is always followed with insults. It's just sad.
Le jeu. 4 juil. 2019 à 13:02, PGC <[email protected]> a écrit : > > > On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 4:08:29 PM UTC+2, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> I don't know what Bruno did to you,what's the point to always attacking >> him like that and misunderstand on purpose what is written ? >> >> You can keep that for you. >> >> If you have something interesting to say, say it, if it's only for >> insulting don't bother posting... those king of insulting emails are really >> boring, not only yours, all of them. You're not greater or something, it >> does not serve the debates, it is just useless and shaming. >> > > Serve the debates? What multiverse do you inhabit? > > In the past weeks this list has gone through a religious purge with > Platonia and its specialists here not merely conceding that they've > tampered with evidence, but that doing so in the name of their truth > displays the only kind of "correct scientific attitude". This while > continuing to claim that mind-body problem is the only critical problem to > solve, while denouncing all forms of materialism, while writing on material > keyboards in clock time and using an internet reliant on the existence of > material servers plus electricity, through a culture of democratic freedoms > afforded to us by physicalist mad men! And this every single day without > fail, as if confusing their material screens with reality. > > Mind body solutions are provided by just about every institutional > religion on the planet, all with their own books and "evidences". As > somebody that regularly analyzes discourse of all kinds, I see no debate > here but a monologue of ideologues that suffocates any alternative > ontological approaches on a list designed to discuss "theories of > everything". Yup, theories in plural. Therefore, au contraire Quentin the > anxious, the fact that for some 2 decades, the list is barraged by > discourse such as "what world, what clock you naive person?", as soon as > any everyday interpretation and/or wording of events or phenomena is stated > by Brent and others, quite gratuitously and insultingly by platonists. > Whenever the platonists feel like it. In essence solidifying pure opinion > as mathematical truth riding the high moral horse of truth of ignorance. > > When the non-platonists bemoan pronoun use or unclear grandmother > assumption notions that forcibly arise in the initial discursive setup of > UDA on the other hand, such unclear notions get a pass by platonists here. > Double standard through cherrypicking. > > The discourse in question also appears to yours truly as ascetic in > nature: denial of access to reality, so how can a metaphysics or anything > including debates be meaningfully pursued? Nihilism overlaps with > asceticism and denial of access to the real or that can be shared. So how > could any agreement or disagreement for example be as meaningful as stating > the "right theological attitude" in the first place? Then the discourse > deploys "infinitely weak mechanism for the search" or similar without > provision of an account of evidence and/or map. > > Don't take my word for it, but these discursive styles and principles have > been refuted from many angles and/or have been unable to resolve basic > philosophical problems and consistency constraints. See > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism > > Quote "the purpose of pursuing spiritual goals" as an operation of > platonic mind commonly assumed here equates to fundamental inquiry as a > sort of redemption from the illusion/dream of life. That's pretty Christian > and all too human for bona fide computationalistas of this list, or is it > not? Just shadows but salvation in rejecting materiality while > materializing numbers, literalizing their properties strongly and laying a > territorial claim to "Origins of physical laws", which I'll maintain is > ambitious in proportion to the speculative existence of means to evidence > besides being "territorial" in nature. Tampering with evidence is a thing > in platonia, is it not? Science does better. > > Quote "Asceticism is seen in the ancient theologies as a journey towards > spiritual transformation, where the simple is sufficient, the bliss is > within, the frugal is plenty." This is the basic aesthetic decor of our > discourse here: the simplest 2+2=4 decor that hides the monstrosities of > duplicating machines and powerful computing ability we don't have to verify > our observations in nature. I reject it because I'm not certain materialism > is not a hopeless delusion. Besides being too strong a claim, materialism > brought weapons and war for sure, but science can't coexist without it. > With art, all these things are interdependent and materialism bootstraps > our creativity towards joy. The shared kind under liberality and diversity > measures. Hedonisms, of which say consumerism is a diluted form, don't > commit wholesale to some extreme physicalist straw man you guys keep > beating ad infinitum. This strengthens the case that the discourse in > question is a set of rhetorical ideological devices rather than science. > > The utilitarian focus on hyper simple ontological performance, which is an > overemphasis on the "what", the content; lacking the dimensionality of the > "why", points to some ascetic resignation in discourse or psychology terms. > What a discourse leads to concretely for outcomes in life is tending to > outstrip with yours truly the concern for features, fancy body-mind > purported solutions, quantum mechanics etc. The why, especially talking > attitude, seems somehow a more appropriate point to converge on whenever > metaphysics is called upon. > > *Quote "Nietzsche describes the morality of the ascetic priest as > characterized by Christianity > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity> as one where, finding oneself > in pain or despair and desiring to perish from it, the will to live causes > one to place oneself in a state of hibernation and denial of the material > world in order to minimize that pain and thus preserve life, a technique > which Nietzsche locates at the very origin of secular science as well as of > religion. He associated the "ascetic ideal" with Christian decadence."* > > Given unconvincing evidence and unclear arguments concerning how, where, > and why some forms and types of materialism are problematic also leaves me > skeptical of the entire enterprise and its solvability. Yeah, you guys will > say it's a theology where everything fits but simultaneously afford > yourselves to push hard on the supposed truth of computability applying to > reality, which is questionable in view of a notion of "evidence" we saw in > previous weeks you guys have no problem proclaiming to tamper with. That's > "theory" veering hard into opinion with pride and ideological ambition to > boot. The internet, no surprise. > > You speak of empty insults, and my assessment of the discourse states > uncalled for use of linguistic tricks, which is obviously required when all > standards of evidence and peer criticism are abandoned in favor of the > "right attitude to fundamental questions". I didn't participate in that > flurry of ambitious posts, you guys did that to yourselves while continuing > to try to maintain the semblance of some serious academic debate. A debate > that is sabotaged by the kind of discourse that denies its own reliance on > materialism. Similar to the right wing guys that seek influence in > democratic institutions while they clearly declare themselves to be proud > ideologues fundamentally opposed to democracy, probably with the "right > kind of attitude". My contention is: the platonic side pretends to be > innocent on the dynamics and complexity of the platform they employ to > participate in discourse. > > That's hypocritical but worry not anxious Quentin. I have neither the time > nor inclination to "debate" with ideologues. You guys win. Always and > anyway and forever. You have infinite time to post, so do the maths. But if > you're sensitive to your own discursive tricks applied to your reasoning > for a change, which you clearly are when you feel a need to silence me in > posts such as the above, I'll repeat with pleasure: "Grow a pair and > respect yourselves. You guys are better than this. You don't want to > advance debate outside your monologues and ideology which run counter to > the spirit of the list." Because "Theories" is in fact plural. PGC > > > > > > >> >> Quentin >> >> Le mer. 3 juil. 2019 à 15:50, PGC <[email protected]> a écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Wednesday, July 3, 2019 at 11:51:52 AM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> > On 2 Jul 2019, at 20:22, 'Brent Meeker' via Everything List < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > On 7/2/2019 2:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>> >> Which time? I can access only my subjective time, and I would say >>>> that my period between birth and the age of ten has been considerable >>>> longer that the once between 10 and 60. >>>> > >>>> > We should send you a clock and a calendar then. >>>> >>>> :) >>>> >>>> The whole point is that physics arise from the statistics on first >>>> person experiences, which are required when we do physical experiment and >>>> look at a needle. >>>> Thanks for sending me a clock and a calendar, but we cannot use it to >>>> solve the measure problem, or you are invoking the mind-brain identity link >>>> which is the problematic thing, not in physics, but in physicalist >>>> metaphysics. >>>> >>> >>> No shadow of your smile as it would be consistent to not award you the >>> supposed prize we keep hearing about! Those guys understood the situation >>> apparently. Some prize awarded at some time t cannot be real. Lol >>> >>> You get no clock, so you get a clock. No prize means that you got a >>> prize. Death means immortality. Losing means winning, so not having solved >>> the measure problem means having solved it. Applause is appropriate but >>> non-applause is preferable and it's what you got! >>> >>> So the absence of success on all fronts means: success platonic! >>> Everybody with debts is now rich, which means that everybody is dumb, which >>> means that they're smart. That's what age will do to you: you get old and >>> your arguments + evidence get better and better hurtling towards certain >>> immortality. The heavenly stuff. Mind body total reality. Total partial >>> non-control. Tomorrow it will be rainy or snowy or foggy or sunny or >>> everything or nothing. With the bar so high one begins to wonder why anyone >>> could have the audacity to think they've failed or succeeded at anything >>> without Bruno's generous support. PGC >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/50e53fc4-47f0-4632-a0bb-abfa393aea9b%40googlegroups.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/50e53fc4-47f0-4632-a0bb-abfa393aea9b%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> >> >> -- >> All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy >> Batty/Rutger Hauer) >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a00962e1-0bb1-4b88-8257-8add8cba5135%40googlegroups.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/a00962e1-0bb1-4b88-8257-8add8cba5135%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/CAMW2kArJUS7bp_Ug3WcUaSBsekvn2Wmt5OO0GbbkqXN%3DSb%3DRbQ%40mail.gmail.com.
