On Thursday, August 1, 2019 at 3:51:45 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 31 Jul 2019, at 09:25, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > If it isn't stuff (at the bottom of it), it it isn't real. > > Otherwise, it is idealism, which physics (as today's "popular" physicists > present it to the public) has become today. > > *In philosophy, idealism is the group of metaphysical philosophies that > assert that reality, or reality as humans can know it, is fundamentally > mental, mentally constructed, or otherwise immaterial.* > > > > In a first approximation, this can help. But, at some point, it might be > handy to distinguish between > > - human idealism (what you describe by “ that assert that reality, or > reality as humans can know it, is fundamentally mental, mentally > constructed”) > > -universal idealism (the same with “human” replace by digital machine or > (intensional) number (I will lake this notion clear in the glossary that I > have promised). > > - immaterialism (the belief in a Turing universal system and in no more > than that for the ontology). > > The last case is more a neutral monism than an idealism, as the ideas are > not really primitive, they occur in the mind of numbers, which are taken as > the “independent ontology” that we assume. > > Metter is not “just” an idea in the mind of some numbers: it is a > phenomenological reality that *all* universal number encounter. The > physical reality is a deep invariant sharable by all machine/number, and > which has for them also a non sharable part (the qualia, the immediate > consciousness, …). > > Bruno > > > *To identify qualia themselves with purely numerical entities* is the question.
If qualia are nonnumerical, and assuming they are real (which I do), then they must be nonnumerical (or non-"physical") material constituents of nature. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/8cbb27c6-0f81-44c5-b59e-fd04f2b00248%40googlegroups.com.
