On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 1:27:49 PM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 11:41:25 AM UTC-5, Alan Grayson wrote: >> >> On Saturday, October 5, 2019 at 7:57:59 AM UTC-6, Lawrence Crowell wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> They came to equilibrium, and what thermal fluctuations that deviated >>> away from equilibrium were "ironed out" by inflation. >>> >> >> It's the "ironed out" that I don't understand. If there were some >> fluctuations, small deviations from thermal equilibrium, why would a sudden >> expansion attenuate them? It makes more sense to me that the universe was >> already very close to thermal equilibrium during inflation, and inflation >> *preserved* this state. BTW, I am not "belaboring" anything here; >> rather, I am trying to resolve, or possibly modify, a key element of the >> inflation model. AG >> > > This is why these post with you drive me nuts. It is for the same reason > that if waves are stretched out they are made more IR. If clumps are > stretched out, think hard speed bump vs a soft one that is spread out, or > if curvatures are stretched these occur on a low energy or larger scale. > > LC >
Bruce has a dim view of inflation theory. He says it's a solution seeking a problem. He doesn't say, but if it's related to the present large scale homogeneity of the observable universe, it raises the issue of whether, just before or during inflation, the universe was already in thermal equiibrium. It's a reasonable question because, throughout that time, the universe was extraordinarily tiny and in causally connected. What's lacking in your reply, and possibly in the theory supporting inflation ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE, is a rigorous definition of thermal equilibrium, and whether the time scale of inflation (its duration), the size of the universe during that time, and the SoL, whether thermal equilibrium is definitely ruled OUT. Maybe it deviated by just one part in 100,000 and this is what is measured in the CMBR. If the question drives you nuts, it's probably because, to some extent, you share the world-view of the ruling elite in ancient Greece who found the questions of Socrates intolerable and insisted he drink the hemlock. My method is to test the claims of theories, and the more polemic the answers, the less confidence I have in their truth value. That said, I thank you for the plausible information that particles became manifest with the decay of the original vacuum. AG > > >> >> >>> The current state of the universe is such that it emerged from a much >>> lower state of entropy than what we would otherwise think. This state of >>> low entropy was available to a causal region that inflated out, and what >>> fluctuations existed were stretched out and reduced in relative magnitude. >>> >>> I fail to see why so many people have trouble with this. It is not a >>> final answer, for that will require not only quantum gravitation, but a >>> theory of quantum gravitation that is worked into a fair measure of >>> maturity. However, inflation does push the barrier of ignorance back a fair >>> degree. >>> >>> LC >>> >>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> That was what was set up with inflation. The whole process of the >>>>>>>>> early expanding universe is about there being episodes of approximate >>>>>>>>> thermal equilibrium of particles, such as during the quark-gluon >>>>>>>>> plasma >>>>>>>>> phase, electroweak period, the QED equilibrium of electrons and >>>>>>>>> photon or >>>>>>>>> the plasma phase that ended by producing the CMB. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To think about physics one has to do a sort of Buddhist middle >>>>>>>>> way. It is not good to either be too liberal or given to extreme >>>>>>>>> speculations, but it is also not good to be overly conservative. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> LC >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6786f308-9bf9-4416-bfc5-b50e02c8db69%40googlegroups.com.
