On Fri, Sep 1, 2023 at 1:22 PM Stathis Papaioannou <stath...@gmail.com>
wrote:

 >> according to superdeterminism the particular initial condition the
>> universe was in 13.8 billion years ago has determined if you think
>> superdeterminism is a reasonable theory or if you think it's complete
>> bullshit. As for me I was determined to believe it's bullshit.
>>
>
> *>I still struggle to see the difference between determinism and
> superdeterminism. They both say that there is no true randomness*
>

Yes.


> * > which includes randomness in how the experimenters set up their
> experiment.*
>

No. Knowing the laws of physics is not enough, to make predictions you also
need to know the initial conditions. Superdeterminism says more than a
given state of the universe is the mathematical product of the previous
state, superdeterminism assumes, for no particular reason, that out of the
infinite number of states the universe could've started out at, 13.8
billion years ago it was in the one and only one particular state that
would make experimenters 13.8 billion years later "choose" to set their
instruments in such a way that they always *INCORRECTLY* conclude that
things can *NOT* be both realistic and local. It would be absolutely
impossible to make a larger assumption than this, and that is why it is the
largest violation of Occam's Razor conceivable. There are an infinite
number of initial conditions the universe could've started out in and in
which things would be deterministic today, but one and only one initial
condition would produce the universe in which superdeterminism is true. And
if superdeterminism were true then there would be no point in performing
scientific experiments since there would be no reason for them to lead to
the truth, and yet airplanes fly and bridges don't collapse so they do seem
to lead to the truth, there is no way to explain that unless the initial
conditions were even further restrained such that we set our instruments
correctly on all experiments *EXCEPT* when the experimenters try to test
for realism or locality, then we "choose" to set them incorrectly. That's
why I don't understand how anyone can take this seriously. That is why I
think superdeterminism is bullshit.

 John K Clark    See what's on my new list at  Extropolis
<https://groups.google.com/g/extropolis>
dss

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