o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o just checking mail between the texas half (102 F) and canada half (hopefully < 30 C) of my vacation so i won't be able to participate in this discussion, but i may have mentioned that c.s. peirce lectured on what he called the "laws of information" at harvard and the lowell institute in 1865-66. here are some excerpts from those lectures with minimal kibbitzing from me:
ICE. Information = Comprehension x Extension http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-March/thread.html#196 http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/2003-April/thread.html#363 bye for now, jon awbrey o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o Francis Heylighen wrote: > > Seth: > >I was just thinking and came to somewhat of a conundrum. In the ever > >unsuccessful attempts to try to operationally define information, > >aside from Shannon and Weiner identification of it with entropy (I > >know its not exactly identical, but you know what I mean) the real > >problem occurs in trying to define it in terms of something else. > >What do we define information in terms of, matter? Energy? What does > >this mean? > > What about Bateson's famous definition of information as "a > difference that makes a difference"? The "difference" concepts refers > to Shannon's "syntactical" view which defines information in terms of > the possible number of states that a message could have (the more > states, the more differences, the more potential information). The > "making a difference" can be seen as referring to the "pragmatical" > dimension of information: the message should not only be > distinguishable, but relevant or meaningful, i.e. it should make a > difference for the receiver, helping the receiver to make this > decision rather than that one, and thus achieving a better or more > desirable situation. > > For example, if someone sends me the New York telephone book, but I > don't know anybody in New York and am not planning to go there, this > message contains a lot of information in the Shannon, syntactic > sense, but none in the Bateson, pragmatic sense. I might as well > have received several megabytes of random numbers and letters. On the > other hand, if I was desperately trying to trace a person of whom I > only know the name and the fact that she lives in New York, the > message may be a godsend, and make a huge difference to my life. > > >Do we go the route of Fredkin and just insist information is the > >fundamental in which everything else is defined by? > > The "difference that makes a difference" can also be interpreted in a > more metaphysical, ontological sense as describing the fundamentally > relational nature of reality: no phenomenon (difference) can exist on > its own , it must somehow be related (covary) with some other > phenomenon (another difference). This is actually the basis of my own > philosophy and its "bootstrapping axiom", which says that > distinctions (differences) are not given, but produce each other. It > builds further on Leibniz's principle of the "the identity of the > indistinguishables". See http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/IDENINDI.html > > In that sense, information (or rather relationality) is the > fundamental in terms of which everything else is defined (including > matter and energy). However, this is not the Shannon information > which consists of independent "bits", but the Bateson one that > consists of mutually dependent differences. > > > I'm not sure yet exactly how this ties in with a global brain, but > >you never know where inspiration will come from, you know? I just > >want to see what other people think? > > The relation with the GB is of course that the GB is one huge network > of relations along which information propagates, and as such merely a > more complex organization emerging out of the simpler relational > networks that have been existing all along... The intelligence of the > GB consists in recognizing which differences make the more important > differences, thus allowing it to filter out the meaning out of the > sea of data. > -- > > Francis Heylighen > Center "Leo Apostel" > Free University of Brussels > http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/HEYL.html > ======================================== > Posting to [EMAIL PROTECTED] from Francis Heylighen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o inquiry e-lab: http://stderr.org/pipermail/inquiry/ o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
