On Mon, 2002-05-27 at 14:37, Raider wrote: > > > My fist complaint (or did I miss something?) is that I want to use > > > another editor than the default. How can this be done? > > It can't. > > Why?
because no one has implemented it? > > > You dont seem to have any real reasons why the editor is unusable > > though. Personally i'd like to use emacs, or even vi, but i can't > > *shrug*, its still adequate. > > I'd go for gvim. Which is more flexible and can be even "scripted" to > do what you want. then use gvim to compose a message body and paste it into the editor. > > Anyway, I didn't say it is unusable. It still has problems. As you > can see mostly aestetic reasons, don't know much about the insides. > > Talking about which... okay, it doesn't know how to use an external > editor. Than are you aware of such a hack? I heard about such a > project but I also heard it makes evolution crash quite often as wel. yes, there is a hack around somewhere. do a search on google. > > > > And here comes my list of problems with the editor. > > > 1. There's no word wrap setting (not to my knowledge). I'd be grateful > > > if somebody will point me that "missing" option. > > You mean setting the mode to 'normal' or 'preformat'? > > Hmm... from what I see normal means wrapped, preformat means > unwrapped. This isn't enough as it only works for my text and not for > the quoted part. See... yahoo.com for example gives you the full > sentence/phrase/paragraph untill the user pushed newline. For the user > of yahoo.com there's nothing wrong. For me... answering with Evolution > is a real pain as I have to break the text line by line. There are > sittuations (say a long URL) where this shouldn't happen. But that > wrapping feature should be there, should be settable... The composer is designed to not auto-wrap quoted paragraphs because there may be a need for them to not be wrapped. Anyways, there is already a feature request about this afaik. > > > You mean setting the 'normal' option? > > Okay. How can I set the normal option. All I find is a list where I > can set the fonts for fixed/variable width on screen and on print. Than > the shortcuts... and the spell checking. Where is that "number"? what number? the number of characters per line? You can't. > > > I guess because its changing the text from preformat to 'normal'. Its a > > different paragraph, and its being done in html, so you get an extra > > line becuse you've inserted 'normal' between two 'pre' blocks. > > My text is plain text. My friend's text is also plain text. Do you > mean Evolution does some sort of conversion behind the scenes > text->HTML->text? yes. GtkHTML is an html editor. > > > Not really. '>' at the beggining of the original text means a quote. > > It is no longer the original text because you've changed it. You > > wouldn't expect to type '> blah' on a line by itself and have it > > magically changed to a quote, would you? > > There are different types of quotes around. Some use '#'. Others the > first letters of the author's user name than the '>'. Anyway, my point > is if I'm writing a large reply and use that colour part my text isn't > clearly divided into "quotes" and "answers". Meaning if you choose > coloring the usability of the editor decreases. I don't see how this has anything to do with anything. > > Problem solved in an elegant manner. Once you hit return to modify the quoted text, it's no longer our problem. You've modified it, you get to deal with it. > > > > 7. As an addition to the previous problem, actually a combination of the > > > previous two, if I manually add the '>' sign to the beginning of the > > > line it will show as normal text and the rest will be as quote. I know, > > > one solution would be to turn this different coloring off. But this > > > doesn't mean that part doesn't need improvement. > > Doesn't sound terribly life threatening to me. Especially when there > > are real bugs to fix. > > Oh... of course. But for about the same type of functionality (or even > more flexibility) I can get mailx... now... we're not getting anywhere > with this type of attitute. > > You said there are real bugs to fix... Hmm... what kind of software is > this? My evolution is labeled 1.0.2. I see 1.0.5 is out. IMHO 1.x > means STABLE. Like in no bugs. Is this some sort of beta like with > microsoft? This means Evolution will get stable at what release? 5.x? > This isn't sarcasm. I'm really curious. Even Mozilla has v1.0.0 rc... > meaning release candidade where the features are fixed than people try > to kill as many bugs as possible... than you have a new rc... and so on > till you sqash them all. I guess this must mean that the Linux kernel must be so bug free that it is 2.4 * no-bugs, huh? Give me a break. All complex software has bugs. There's no way to make that not so. If you think there is, then please enlighten us. Perhaps you should get involved and start writing this perfect bug-free code of which you speak. > > > Why no names? > > Solved the problem in this new mail - I give names and descriptions ;-) > > > I'd rather it worked the way it does, personally. Its more like a plain > > old editor (e.g. emacs, vi), which is what i'm used to, not some silly > > 'smart' editor which gets in the way of what you're trying to do. > > Hmm... I disagree with you. See... gvim is smart. And you can teach > it a lot of things. Evolution's editor seems smart, pretends to be > smart (spell checking, colors and other things as well) and it isn't > that good. I mean is 1.0.x considered development branch? Else, that > coloring stuff shouldn't be in this release, because it is done half > right. No one else seems to have complained. > > > Perhaps you're only sending as text and its recoving from a text > > message, in which case I think it loses most formatting information. > > Although i'm not really sure on this one. > > Well.. it shouldn't. \t should remain \t, \n should remain \n and so > on. This recovery part is extremely useful. But why doesn't it > remember all? Back to gvim - (as well as vim) it remembers formatting > as well. remember that GtkHTML is not a plain-text editor, it is an HTML editor. Which means that you must convert plain-text back into HTML. This is a non-perfect translation. There's no way to make it perfect, which is why we now save drafts in HTML always (even if you choose to only send plain-text mail) this way formatting is preserved. > > > I'm not sure, perhaps this is being worked on too. The quotation stuff > > has been developed lately, as I said above. Again, it doesn't appear to > > be a show-stopper bug. > > What is it doing in the "stable" release. Or is 1.0.x a development > branch? It works fine enough to be in the stable release? Like I said above, no one else seems to mind. You're the only one who has complined about it. > > > > 11. I see the editor has a hard time with highlighting addresses as > > > well. It highlights even the '>' or the dot that belongs to the end of > > > phrase. > > Sounds like the end of the world to me! > > Sounds like a nuisance. There's no place for sarcasm here IMHO. This > is a serious problem. If the code is that bad it can't handle addresses > right, than don't add it. The viewer's part is okay. The editor's part > is broken. Why is than this feature enabled in the editor as well? Why don't you send us a patch? Then we can all be happy :-) > > > So why bother about any of the colouring stuff? It all gets dropped as > > soon as you send it anyway. Like, who really cares what it looks like > > on the screen, just set the quote colour to the same as the text colour > > and be done with it? It seems to be an awful lot of niggling over > > something which doesn't even mean anything. > > Why? Even pine which uses ncurses knows this stuff. Huh? what does this got to do with anything? The quoting colours are not sent via email, each program has to identify what the quoted paragraphs are and colouise them itself. Pine's quoting has nothing to do with Evolution's quoting and vise versa. > > And I DO CARE how things look on my screen. Or else I won't go that > far and spend time with a wordish editor. Really, your model seems to > me (please correct me if I'm wrong) Outlook. But instead of improving > things the teams seems to try to make a clone and nothing more. Maybe > the aim is a bugless clone, but still, no surface improvements. > Actually a crippled version of Outlook as you miss scripting. Thank you for throwing insults at us left and right. That's always a sure way to win people over and make them do things for you. Instead of insulting us, why not start writing code and helping out? You seem to think you could do better. "Put your code where your mouth is" as they say. > > > You should probably just keep using procmail then. If you use a maildir > > store, evolution works just fine with it. > > My thoughts exactly. Now how do I hack into this beast and make it > pipe the mail it gets into procmail and ignore its filtering code if > possible. Because at this point I'd hate to have my resources wasted > with redundant parts. Just make fetchmail download your mail and use procmail as normal. No need to have Evolution pipe it to anything. > > > You *could* enter the rules (you can basically do anything) as complex > > s-expressions, but that isn't documented and liable to change anyway. > > Okay. Sounds good. Can you give me some examples? Or at least point > me some man pages, info pages, web pages, whatever about this? read the source code and/or the filtertypes.xml file in ~/evolution for examples. > > What does "liable to change" anyway? That I might lose a night hacking > the XML to find out that if I upgrade the new Evolution will crash? No, it means that the expressions may change some day. They won't change in any 1.0.x release. They have already been extended in the 1.1.x development branch (but older rules will still work). > > > Just stick to procmail I guess. The filters werent' designed for this > > type of mess. You can't implement goto's in the s-expressions either. > > That was an alternative. Quick. Dirty. A hack. From how things are > now I can't make rule 15 that the messages it receives is the result of > rule 10 and not the result of rule 8. This while keeping this primitive > "if all" and "if any" way of grouping. > > > Just use maildir and point evolution to the maildir tree. > > > > You can use mbox trees as well (at least in 1.1), but they're not as > > efficient. > > I have a problem here. With Evolution I don't need to bother with a > mail server and I don't have to bother with fetchmail as well. How can > I make Evolution feed procmail via pipe the messages? Don't tell me > I'll have to reinstall fetchmail and sendmail. Yep, you'll have to reinstall fetchmail. I don't see why you'd need to install Sendmail though. > > > We use the timeouts that the operating system gives us for tcp > > connections. Tcp timeouts take a while, and we dont know about them > > till the OS tells us. This is how we 'monitor' the connection. I dont > > think there's any way to do more than this in an portable way, as we are > > abstracted from the hardware by the operating system. > > Okay. So this is one thing to complain some place else. It's good to > know. Can you tell me which developer group is dealing with this > issue? Just in case you know of course. The linux kernel hackers maybe? :-) > > > The cancel button might work on the main display, then again it might > > not, i'm not too sure on this one. > > It works. Or the Mandrake team is modifying sources? He meant that he couldn't remember if it would cancel the send or not. I wasn't 100% sure either, but if you say it works then it works. The Mandrake team didn't modify the code any at all afaik. > > > Well, its because its 'send now', that means 'send now'. It doesn't > > mean 'send when you can'. If you want to do that, you should use 'send > > later', and use the send/receive button. > > Yea. I know that. But make it smarter. The way you put it, the poor > idiot that came with the idea of sent mail and outbox should be fired. > As you can just make one mail folder and set a flag as "sent" "waiting > to be sent" "broken"... > > > It should be launching a background thread to perform the sending > > anyway, not hanging the application. > > I had to kill the app. Because even if I reconnected Evolution was > unable to recover. > > > If it'll make you feel any better from being so upset, here's a flower > > :) > > > > @>-,-`-,--- > > Ah. I see the thorns. > > > You dont click on them. i.e. you can't. You can probably hide them > > from the gui by removing their directories in ~/evolution//local, but > > some parts will still load anyway in certain circumstances. > > I don't want to hide them. This is what I make on windoze. I pretend > not to see all the useless apps that are launched. Over here... why > load them by default? Just because Ximian could put a label "oh, see, > our code is as resource greedy as your Outlook so try your new Itanium > with this to see we're just as slow as our competition"? Strange. Why > load them? Again, thank you for insulting us. > > > This i couldn't agree on more. For some reason the UI 'gods' think that > > its better not to know the email address. I'd like it changed but I > > can't imagine it happening while there are bigger problems to fix. > > Still, its not really the end of the world either, but you could always > > try submitting a patch. > > There are people whom get lost when they see all those chars. They > just rightclick a mail from Johnsey and they send a mail to Johnsey, > thinking of [EMAIL PROTECTED] is a dreadful thought for their hamburger-like > IQ. But there has to be an option lost somewhere. Where the default is > like this, and me and you can just check it and we're back to what we > want/know. > > About the patch: first I don't know I'm that good. I give you credit > for the work you do and I respect you (you said you're one of the > developers). Than... what makes you sure my patch will be accepted? > And just keeping with the latest version to provide a patch is way over > my resources. I don't have the time. And I don't have the line to get > from Ximian every latest version. This is why I stick with the MDK8.2 > defaults in the first place. We can't guarentee that the patch will make it in, but if your patch is well written and clean (ie, no kludgy hacks) then odds are we'd accept it. > > > You can goto the mail config and disable the accounts easily. It was > > done that way specifically for this reason (well, among others, but it > > was a high priority reason). > > Okay. If I disable them, how do I collect the mail? By enabling > them? If this is the answer don't bother, it would be the lamest > answer, just to prove some code might work. Again, names: Eudora has a > list with the accounts. If there is a POP/IMAP server/account mentioned > than this is in the list. You have a flag to set in order that the > "check mail" function takes into consideration that particual account. > And for the rest - right click and chose "get mail". As easy as that. > Can Evolution do that? Feel free to submit patches. Jeff _______________________________________________ evolution maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.ximian.com/mailman/listinfo/evolution
