Lol. That is so true. They snap up other people's products that have some potential, or fit their model best, and then they include it for free in some other product, or like you mentioned work behind the scenes to improve it until is is actually competitive.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex Alborzfard Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:32 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) I actually have heard from folks who've been to MS VM seminars, That MS claims their VM technology is superior to VMware!!! It's so typical of them. First they'll start giving away their inferior product, to get a market share, meanwhile working on catching up behind the scenes. Then eventually when they do, they'll have the biggest chunk of the market share already. How many times have we seen them doing that?!!! Alex -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of ExchangeDiscussions Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 5:22 PM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) <RANT> I can agree with the sentiment, but not the intent. I personally believe that MS has intentionally worded their Virtual Machine support to only allow support on their virtual technology to intentionally direct people to their inferior product. WOW would MS do something like this? They have structured the licensing to favor their product (Run 4 copies of W2k3r2 Advanced Server for the price of one in their VM), and now will only support exchange in specific VM scenarios on their product. It stopped being a mystery a long time ago, they will "Support" and make "Free" products to try to take the market share.... Even when the product is not as good as a competitors product, or maybe that should say Especially when... </RANT> Bob -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Abouelnasr Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 3:54 PM Posted To: ExchangeDiscussions Conversation: E2k3 cluster question (general) Subject: Re: E2k3 cluster question (general) You may not care about getting their help, but you are asking for the wrath of their product(s) by being unsupported. There is wisdom behind what they support and what they don't. It's the kind of lesson you only need to learn once. :) Jerry p.s. 2nd tier MS support is excellent. On 8/31/06, Jose Manzano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > "Assuming for a moment that availability is equal between a > virtualized > > server and a standard server[1]" > > I haven't seen a difference in out current Virtual Infrastructure of > 30 + Servers. > > "whether or not one can more cost effectively scale hardware and > storage > > to support a virtualized Exchange infrastructure" > > You'd be amazed how efficient ESX is. > > " and a problem occurs that you cannot solve, your boss is going to > have > > a hard time understanding why you decided to implement Exchange in > > an unsupported fashion so that you can't get support from MS." > > All I have to say is this > > 1) I can restore from a previous image (snapshot) faster than you > can get ahold of someone at MS Support. > 2) I don't care about getting their help. Have you tried calling > them to get them to help you with Exchange Issues ? I did last year > and was totally disappointed with them. For one the tech didn't know > how to get my issue resolved and we ended up fixing the problem in the > end , two he could of potentially destroy most of my Priv DB . I > actually told the tech I would not do what he was suggesting and that > I was going re-import the data in another form and he said that would > not work. Well guess what, it worked without any problems. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Chris Scharff > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 2:08 PM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > I believe certain configurations are currently supported for certain > virtualization scenarios. > http://www.support.microsoft.com/kb/320220/ > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:bounce- > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andy Blevins > > Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 12:29 PM Posted To: swynk > > Conversation: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > A basic reason to not virtualize a production Exchange environment > > is that it is not supported by Microsoft. So calling PSS for a bug > > or a hotfix would not be an option. > > > > In the near future (most likely in the next 1.5 yrs) I'm sure MS > > will begin supporting specific installation types on VMWare and > > definitely on Virtual Server, however if you are responsible for an > > environment, and a problem occurs that you cannot solve, your boss > > is going to have a hard time understanding why you decided to > > implement Exchange in an unsupported fashion so that you can't get support from MS. > > > > Just my .02 cents. > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Chris Scharff > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:26 AM > > To: Exchange Discussions > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > Assuming for a moment that availability is equal between a > > virtualized server and a standard server[1], the question still > > remains as to whether or not one can more cost effectively scale > > hardware and > storage > > to support a virtualized Exchange infrastructure. > > > > [1] Which I'm leery of if for no other reason than increased > complexity > > is an enemy of increased availability. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:bounce- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > > Of Jose Manzano Posted At: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:22 AM > > > Posted To: swynk > > > Conversation: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > I'm not too familiar with Microsoft Virtual Server, but I am with > > > VMware Virtual Infrastructure. Given adequate hardware resources, > and > > > proper configuration, I see no problem virtualizing the Exchange > > > Servers. I actually plan on moving our Exchange Server over to a > > > ESX Virtual environment in the next year or so. I also plan on > > > testing Citrix in the new Vmware VI3 since they have supposable > > > optimized > ESX > > > for Citrix. > > > > > > Trust me , once you see VMware Vmotion work for the first time, > > you'll > > > want to virtualize everything :) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > > Alex > > > Alborzfard > > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:30 AM > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > Are you running it on their Server or ESX product? > > > If ESX, which version? > > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > > Of East, Bill > > > Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 9:07 AM > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > FWIW we've had a small (400-user) Exchange server running under > > VMWare > > > for 15 months or so now. We've been very satisfied with it. > > > > > > I could see where throwing the cluster into the equation could > > > complicate things. But probably not as much as running the cluster > on > > a > > > virtual server being run on a Windows partition on a Macintosh. > > That's > > > on fire. > > > > > > -- > > > be - MOS > > > > > > Hard reality has a way of cramping your style. --Daniel Dennett > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > > > > Of > > > Alex > > > > Alborzfard > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 4:01 PM > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > > > Dare I ask: what is specifically wrong with virtualizing > > > > Exchange > > or > > > > is it virtualzing an Exchange cluster? What are the major issues > > and > > > > pitfalls? > > > > > > > > Alex > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf > Of > > > > Chris Scharff > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:35 PM > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > > > In a lab sire. In production.... can't think of a reason other > than > > > > hating your job and wanting a new one. > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:bounce- > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Wehner, > Paul > > > > > (wehnerpl) > > > > > Posted At: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:22 PM Posted To: swynk > > > > > Conversation: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > > > > > I'm going to assemble extra ips, quorum, store volumes and > > > > give it a > > > > > shot. > > > > > Might be moderately useful to have two virtual servers on a > > > > two node > > > > > cluster. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > > Behalf Of Ed > > > > > Crowley [MVP] > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:04 PM > > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > > Subject: RE: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > > > > > I suppose you could install Microsoft Virtual Server and > > > > run the new > > > > > Exchange servers in virtual machines, but I don't recommend > > > > it for a > > > > > production environment. > > > > > > > > > > Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP > > > > > Freelance E-Mail Philosopher > > > > > Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > > > > > Behalf > > Of > > > > > Wehner, Paul (wehnerpl) > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:34 AM > > > > > To: Exchange Discussions > > > > > Subject: E2k3 cluster question (general) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a two node active/passive exchange cluster working fine. > > > > > Is it possible to add a second exchange cluster to these two > > boxes? > > > > > (assuming new ips, different store volumes, etc) Thanks, Paul > > > > > > > > > > > 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