Yes! Well said! Kudos  to you

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Pickens [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:57 AM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects


Personal integrity cannot be imposed through rules and ritualized conduct.
PERIOD!




-----Original Message-----
From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 1:54 PM
To: Exchange Discussions
Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects


The only difference between us and lawyers is that lawyers have ethics.

> Plus the last thing in the world I want is too be compared to a lawyer.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua R. Morgan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 11:49 AM
> To: Exchange Discussions
> Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
> 
> 
> Time to Chime in because I disagree with some of the statements below:
> You say that Doctors, lawyers, and engineers do not get Certified in
things
> like "The Purple Pill" well that may be so but Doctors, lawyers and
> engineers do specialize in different areas such as a Neurologist,
> Pediatrist, Criminal Lawyer, Civil Lawyer.... And to say that Doctors,
> Lawyers, and Engineers do not get free gifts, well that is crazy. Walk
into
> a Doctors office and see the Lipitor Clock or the Viagra Pen. You could
> almost consider IT Certifications like Specializing inside a profession. I
> mean if I am having Brain Surgery I want a Neurologist to be there, if I
am
> having problems with my Exchanger Server (that is beyond my ability to
fix)
> I want someone more specialized than me.
> 
> Basically if you have such angst for the Profession that you are in please
> find something else to do.
> 
> 
> Joshua Morgan
> Not and MCSE, MCP, or MVP but wouldn't mind being one if I had the time
and
> $$$
> As a matter of fact I would not mind being a CCNA, MSDBA, PHD or anything.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua Morgan
> Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] 
> Sent: Friday, February 07, 2003 2:01 PM
> To: Exchange Discussions
> Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
> 
> 
> This is exactly what I am talking about. Certifications in our industry
are
> based around vendors and their tools. I get "Microsoft certified". But
that
> is meaningless. Imagine the corollary, a doctor gets certified in "The
> Purple Pill". That's nonsense, but that is how the IT industry works. We
get
> certifications based upon vendors, not based upon the services or
processes
> we provide or our specialties. If we were to operate more like a
profession,
> we would have people getting certified in "Email" and "Network OS", etc.
But
> we do not, everything in IT is vendor-based. It is sad and until our
> industry wakes up and realizes this, it will fail to be viewed a
profession
> on par with doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc. This view has a SEVERE
impact
> on our ENTIRE industry. We are the equivalent of people traveling around
in
> our "medicine" wagon peddling snake oil and other remedies to cure all
your
> ills.
> 
> > I agree with you, to an extent.  However, I believe the accountability
> > = lapse in our profession is because of the paucity of meaningful = 
> > credentials.  An attorney has to pass the bar, and then (potentially)
> > = get board-certified in his or her specialty.  Same with medical 
> > doctors. =  Same with psychologists.  Aside from the CCIE program and
> > very few = others, the certification process in our industry is 
> > ludicrous and = meaningless.  As long as "built a Quake server in my 
> > parents' garage" is = considered a credential, and as long as a paper
> > MCSE or CNE are = considered credentials, the problem will exist.  The
> > other problem that = goes hand-in-hand with this is that hiring 
> > authorities for some reason = believe that they can accurately judge 
> > an applicant's qualifications = based upon buzzword bingo, meaningless
> > certs papering the wall, and = "years of experience."  Then they get 
> > some monkey that crammed for a = week to get his MCSE, throws around a
> > bunch of lingo that he read in a = tech journal in the waiting room, 
> > and shared breathing space with a = broken installation of $technology
> > for x period of time.  =20
> > 
> > I don't believe accepting my Microsoft Bob coffee mug perverts my = 
> > objectivity.  Except that I really like drinking coffee from it and =
> > probably wouldn't use my Novell mugs because they're plastic and 
> > shaped = in such a way that my coffee gets cold.
> > 
> > -tom
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
> > Posted At: Friday, February 07, 2003 12:30 PM
> > Posted To: MSExchange Mailing List
> > Conversation: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
> > Subject: RE: Shortcuts to Outlook objects
> > 
> > 
> > I'm not sure how this refutes anything along these lines.
> > 
> > Going to a trade show and picking up a freebie is one thing. Accepting
> > a title and accepting continued compensation is quite another. There 
> > is no relationship implied with the first, there is with the second.
> > 
> > There are very specific things that denote a profession. One is having
> > = an independent governing body that defines and enforces the "rules"
> > and ethics of the profession. The IT industry is a horrible failure in
> > this regard. And, if you want to get specific, the only real 
> > professions that meet all of the definitions are military, medical, 
> > lawyers and to a = lesser
> > degree accounting and engineering. If you want to get technical, the
> > military is the only profession that truly meets all of the =
> > requirements.
> > In terms of their management of individuals in their profession, they =
> > are
> > answerable to no one, have their own legal and ethical code of conduct =
> > and
> > enforce those rules. This is why there is the justice system and the
> > military's justice system.
> > 
> > We work with lawyers all the time. We even host partner companies on 
> > our Exchange server for free. The lawyers that we work with FORCE us 
> > to bill them because they cannot ethically accept this service for 
> > free. It creates a conflict of interest for them. Our IT partners have
> > no such ethical constraints.
> > 
> > Go talk to lawyers, doctors and architects. Talk to them about their 
> > governing bodies, their ethics, etc. Talk to them about vendors in 
> > their industry. Getting things for free is viewed as bribery and a 
> > conflict of interest. Some of these industries are more lax than 
> > others. Look at the medical industry and how drug reps are viewed 
> > treated. Then compare that with IT's views on vendors. The difference
> > is stark. In one, drug reps giving away free samples is seen as a huge
> > problem, in IT it is not.
> 
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