So how fundamentally different is paying Microsoft to be a Partner than being an MVP? It's true that I don't pay actual money to be an MVP, but I do work for it. Don't you have to sign lots of agreement papers to be a Partner? Do you give all your customers copies of those papers so they can assess the level of conflict of interest? So if I send Microsoft a dollar for my MVP status, the conflict of interest ends?
You still haven't proven your assertion that my accepting the small gratuity and title associated with MVP constitutes a conflict of interest. Your only proof so far is along the lines of, "It's obvious," or "It is because I say it is." Perhaps it's because you can't prove it? Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP Freelance E-Mail Philosopher Protecting the world from PSTs and Bricked Backups!T -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Deckler Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 8:51 AM To: Exchange Discussions Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics First, you have no credibility on the point. You find the phrase "I finish them (fights)" offensive but not someone being called a "liar", "stupid", "idiot", "wife beater". You simply have zaro credibility. Second, as for your other two points, our customers and potential customers are made well aware of any and all potential conflicts of interest. We practice full disclosure. In addition, meeting with a vendor to talk about their new products is in no way even CLOSE to accepting a title or gift from said vendor. But, there is no point to even debating this with you because you are never going to see it because you are going to deny the obvious. Yes, I have to deal with vendors just like everyone else in this industry. It is a fact of life. But, I don't have to like it and no, generally, I almost NEVER meet with vendors and when I do, it is for specific purposes, I get in, get the information and get out. Finally, you have obviously shown your bias by claiming that I claim to be the "all ethical" sort. And to my knowledge, I have no "ethics test" that I have created. This is a blatant mis-characterization and exposes your bias. I am not, nor ever will be "all ethical" and "holier than thou". I have *different* ethics apparently than many on this board, but I have never claimed to be perfect or that my ethics are the end all, be all. Yes, I have paid to attend conventions, I have paid to be a Microsoft "partner". In some strict ethical vaccuum those may be considered unethical, but this is the real world. And besides that, there is a clear, bright line between paying a vendor to attend a convention and accepting a pure gift from a vendor. That bright line is what I have been talking about, but you are never going to see it because you will never admit to the obvious and just want to pick a fight. And yes, for all of you out there, I am nearly certain that, in my youth, I accepted direct gifts from vendors. I cannot recall any particular occassion, but I'm willing to bet that it probably occurred. And guess what? I stopped that long, long, long ago because IT IS WRONG. So, to sum it up, you have no credibility that you have been "offended" in any way because there have been lots more offensive stuff said that you have not said boo about. And, you are in self-denial about the DISTINCT difference between accepting a pure gift from a vendor and PAYING that vendor to attend a convention, etc. Here's a hint. One costs you money, the other doesn't. > I am not "quibbling" with what you said, I'm instead taking offense at > what you said. You see, you can't claim to be the "all ethical" sort > you want, if you can't even pass the ethics test of your own making. > I didn't post any of those points on your website, someone from YOUR > company did, and you are the one claiming to hold them near and dear. > > How interesting that you choose to respond ONLY to one point, and then > make irrelevant statements about people calling you names. > > Since I didn't call you names sir, perhaps you should go back and > re-read the whole message. It's not that I consider you a liar, or > that you are stupid. I now consider you incapable of having any type > of intelligent discussion based on the fact that you choose to ignore > 2/3rds of what was posted, or should I just assume that you chose not > to discuss those points because you couldn't keep your "I have my Ethics" > argument and all this would be moot? > > Speaking of MOOT, can anyone tell me what top 10 classic rock single > contains the word "MOOT"? > > > > Bob Sadler > > -----Original Message----- > From: Greg Deckler [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, December 22, 2003 9:50 AM > To: Exchange Discussions > Subject: RE: Greg's Utterly Fascinating Views on Ethics > > > So you are going to quibble with things that "I" said? You people are > so whacked out that it is utterly incomprehensible. So where were you > when I was called a "liar" or a "wife beater" or "stupid" or "idiot" > or that I "starve children". All of that is OK in your whacky bizarro > world, but explaining to someone that if you start a fight (in email > for Christ's > sake) that I will finish that fight. Oh that is TERRIBLE! How could > you SAY such a thing. Never mind the "liar", "stupid", "idiot" stuff, > THAT, sir, is uncalled for. > > Bob, you amaze me. > > > You know, I'm just as happy to NOT read this dribble, but when > > someone > > > points out so wonderfully how ethical they are, and we can all go > > to=20 www.infonition.com/ethics.shtml to prove it, then someone like > > me just > > > might go there and read, and low and behold what is it we find? > >=20 > > Well, this character Greg, wants us all to believe his "ethics" > >are=20 without question. So, let's take a look at his ethics page > >and see=20 what he's supposed to be doing. > >=20 > > First, Greg's point of vendor conflict is answered here: > >=20 > > To never accept compensation from vendors for recommending = > products=3D20 > >=20 > > One must ask then Greg, have you ever been to a seminar, > >conference,=20 or LUNCH where the vendor presenting paid for the > >meal, the snacks,=20 the coffee? > >=20 > > Second, Greg's list of ethics claim: > >=20 > > To disclose any and all influences that may affect our=20 > >recommendations=3D20 =20 Greg, does this mean that if I were to > >speak to you over the phone,=20 you would tell me just how many > >times your Cisco, Microsoft, Bay=20 Networks, etc., Rep. has called? > >Or are you saying that you never=20 meet with the vendors to discuss > >how their products can benefit your=20 customers? Do you ever read > >trade magazines that discuss the use of=20 one vendors products over > >another? Will you then tell me all the=20 magazines you read, what > >date, publication, page number, etc? > >=20 > > Third, Greg's list goes on to say: > >=20 > > To be fair and accurate when resolving disputes, problems or > >issues=20 [and] To conduct ourselves in a professional manner at all > >times=3D20 =20 One must ask then Greg, exactly how does your > >statement of: "Wrong.=20 You brought it up by throwing stones my > >way. I don't pick fights, I=20 finish them." work into these > >statements? > >=20 > > This is just what I don't need in a vendor. Someone who believes > >he's > > > always right, and if he is going to have a fight with his > >customers,=20 HE'S going to finish it. I can see now why people > >flock to your=20 organization Greg. > >=20 > > The point is, don't say something matters a great deal to you, > >and=20 then give this list plenty of examples showing that > >apparently it=20 doesn't. You want to wave a flag around and say "I > >have ethics" and=20 yet not live by those same ethics, then be > >prepared to be inundated=20 with the onslaught. > >=20 > > I would trust Ed, Tom, Tony, and even Don, further then I would > >trust=20 someone yelling about how ethical they are and at the same > >time say=20 they'll finish any fight. > >=20 > > It's time to throttle back now greg, and realize this. You are a=20 > >Sales Manager for a company that apparently you are supposed to be=20 > >drumming up business for. Just how much business do you think you=20 > >have generated on this list after acting in the manner you did? > >=20 > > Bob Sadler > >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > _________________________________________________________________ > List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm > Web Interface: > http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=3Dexchange&text_mo > de=3D= > & > lang=3Denglish > To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang =english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED] _________________________________________________________________ List posting FAQ: http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq.htm Web Interface: http://intm-dl.sparklist.com/cgi-bin/lyris.pl?enter=exchange&text_mode=&lang=english To unsubscribe: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Exchange List admin: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
