What do you think ? -----Original Message----- From: Drewski [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:39 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: Comments : How many of you use Message Level Recovery ?
Do you think that every exchange administrator in the world is on this list? -- Drew ******************************** Visit http://www.drewncapris.net! Go! Go there now! "You do not need an AR-15, or M-60 to hunt Bambi." -- Tom McCarty -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Ashish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:00 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: Comments : How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? So from what you all have told me, from an administration and maintenance perspective BLB sux. So why is every one of you is asking this question to all the vendors ? "Q> Do you have mailbox level recovery ?" and if the answer is "NO NO!" ... "and the reasons are "blah_blah!!"" the answer is "OH those guys have it, and those too...how come you don't have it?..." etc etc.... >From a business perspective vendors are getting asked this question from end users (business and technical decision makers like you all) ALL THE TIME so maybe there's some disconnect here. Management doesn't care HOW you do it, they care on whether you CAN do it or not. They prefer if you CAN. And what I've gleaned from this thread is that some of you DO use mailbox or mail level recovery and have a business need for it, maybe as an extension of DIR or as a vendor product feature. Sure, no one recommends it, it bumps up costs, hardware, software and maintenance, and probably many don't set it up, but everyone asks for it and it is among the "number one" questions for evaluating and buying a product. thanks for all the feedback! regards, -----Original Message----- From: Ropiak Steve - NAO Florence Office Exchange and Bar Code Admn. [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 12:41 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? We were considering Comvault, but never was able to connect with their sales to get a price. A real budget breaker, eh? mit freundlichen Grüßen,(Best Regards), Steve Ropiak ZF Group NAO CERT, Exchange and Bar Code Administrator -----Original Message----- From: Lefkovics, William [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 12:08 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? There is NO business that needs BLB. (MAYBE if you can afford Commvault) -----Original Message----- From: STEVE BROOK [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 8:52 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? "Horses for Courses" - It really does depend on your type of business environment. On this particular customer site, some sales deals in one department can take a year to complete. I have been asked to retrieve mails from 6 -7 months previous (The answer at the time was no as we did not do Brick Level Backup, and I was not going to restore the whole Private store for one mail & unfortunately the user had deleted the archive.pst) After getting it in the neck for that one, we are now doing BLB's P.S. What is the maximum retention time with E2K anybody know? SB -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 4:29 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? Why the "!"? I have been using a DIR period of 35 days ever since going live with Exchange 5.5 2 years ago. In all of that time, we have NEVER had to do a message or mailbox restore from tape. -Michèle Immigration site: <http://LadySun1969.tripod.com> Our new 2001 Miata: <http://members.cardomain.com/bpituley> Tiggercam: <http://www.tiggercam.co.uk> --------------------------------------------------------- Motivational Speaker Klingon: EVERY day is a good day to die! Say it with me! --------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Goddard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 11:14 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? People sometimes want a mail restored that they deleted more than 90 days ago! -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 31 October 2001 14:10 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? > You may wonder why we bother with BLB when we have such a long deleted item retention period: > a) It is occasionally handy to restore an individual email without using a separate "restore server" > b) Restoring an single email can be quicker - "hero factor" when someone's in trouble! > c) Gives a "belt and braces" approach to backup But, but, but...! With such a long DIR period, you don't NEED BLB to do a), b), & c)!!! ::confused:: No separate "restore server" is needed; and DIR is quick, quick, quick (vite, even!). re: c) -- my dentist said that braces probably wouldn't do me any good.... -Michèle Immigration site: <http://LadySun1969.tripod.com> Our new 2001 Miata: <http://members.cardomain.com/bpituley> Tiggercam: <http://www.tiggercam.co.uk> --------------------------------------------------------- I am in shape. Round is a shape... --------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Goddard [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 6:04 AM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? We use it quite successfully, but only subject to the following: 1) We also do a full regular backup each night 2) We have a backup window than allows both BLB and full backup each time 3) We have enough space on the tapes for BLB and full backups 4) We use Veritas (not ArcServe!) 5) We have a long deleted item retention period (90 days) so individual message recovery is rarely needed. 6) It has never caused any faults 7) It is regularly tested You may wonder why we bother with BLB when we have such a long deleted item retention period: a) It is occasionally handy to restore an individual email without using a separate "restore server" b) Restoring an single email can be quicker - "hero factor" when someone's in trouble! c) Gives a "belt and braces" approach to backup I would _never_ recommend only doing BLB, but if 1-7 above are all OK then it can be useful. I think if you restore from a full backup, exmerge a couple of emails out of the restore and then into the production server, you lose SIS for these emails. For a full restore I'd always use the full backup not the BLB. Hope this helps Cheers, Andrew. -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 October 2001 20:21 To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: RE: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? <http://mail.tekscan.com/nomailboxes.htm> <http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq_appxf.htm> from the archives.... ************** The Top Ten Reasons why William Doesn't recommend Brick-level backups: 10. The only product he's tried it with is ArcServeIT (*shudder*) 9. Brick-level backups should be done in conjunction with regular backups therefore duplicating the process. 8. Brick-level backups don't clear the transaction logs 7. Brick-level restores (esp of the entire store) are VERY slow 6. Brick-level restores result in loss of Single Instance Storage 5. Brick-level backups do not properly maintain all of the data structures in the store that you might need for a full restore (at least Computer Associates product doesn't). 4. The alternative is so much easier and cleaner - deleted item retention. Set deleted item retention to say 30 days, a little user education and they can do their own mailbox' restore. 3. Regular use of exmerge (to pst files for backup) for important mailboxes is another alternative. 2. Section 3.11 at: <http://www.swinc.com/resource/exch_faq_sec3.htm> says so (ok, I don't do everything I'm told either). 1. The archives at the Exchange list at swynk.com are full of Brick-level horror stories. -William Lefkovics, MCSE, A+ (and a brand new Exchange MVP!) ************** Brick Level Backups will not cause your car to rust out or your hair to fall out. They are unlikely to make your system less reliable (but no guarantees there), nor make your normal non-brick-level backups less reliable. They do, however, use more tape, make your backup jobs take more time and wear your tape drive out faster. They give you a false sense of security that you can get something back when in fact you may not. And you often cannot get everything back from a brick level backup. Brick Level Backup is a kludgy crutch for administrators who insist on managing their Exchange systems as if they were cc:Mail or MS Mail systems. They want the benefits of a database e-mail architecture, but want to manage it as if it were a file-based system. If you follow the Ed Crowley Never Restore Method®, you can remain secure in the knowledge that you'll almost never need to do a Brick Level Restore. If, for some rare event you find that you need to restore a message or mailbox, then you have a great opportunity to practice your disaster recovery techniques on your recovery server. What? You don't have a recovery server? Well, you need one whether or not you use Brick Level Backup. In a nutshell, Brick Level Backups aren't evil. But they're completely superfluous. -Ed Crowley MCSE+Internet MVP ************** -Michèle Immigration site: <http://LadySun1969.tripod.com> Our new 2001 Miata: <http://members.cardomain.com/bpituley> Tiggercam: <http://www.tiggercam.co.uk> --------------------------------------------------------- I was thinking about how people seem to read the Bible a whole lot more as they get older, then it dawned on me...they were cramming for their finals... --------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Kumar, Ashish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 3:08 PM To: MS-Exchange Admin Issues Subject: How many of you use Message Level Recovery ? Hi all, have seen some interesting discussions on this forum, and Id like to as a very basic question(this is not for market research. What are your experiences with single message recovery, or mailbox recovery from products like legato, ultrabac, veritas, commvault etc ? Do you actually use it, how much and how often ? Is this a very basic requirement for your selection of the product that you do backup and recovery with. With your help I'll probably get help making a decision I need to make , so thanks in advance ! regards, Ash List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm List Charter and FAQ at: http://www.sunbelt-software.com/exchange_list_charter.htm