Papa's guards have little to do with the place, except the required roof payments... just look how Chesterfields morfed into its current state.. I suspect it was not Doug himself dealing with the guard, he of course would have sorted it out in a minute. Don't take it personally, it is Russia and any businessperson knows that this is the ongoing struggle to keep control of your business here if you are in some public and successful business. Combat boots might not have helped, a NY night club might have faced you as well..
Message: 1 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 18:58:15 +0400 From: Alex Fak <[email protected]> Subject: Expat List re: Papa's To: [email protected] Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Dustin is absolutely right. He had an unfortunate incident and he warned others about the place. Now it's up to the manager or the owner to set things right. Message: 4 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 07:30:25 +0000 From: Chris Manuel <[email protected]> Subject: Expat List RE: Expat Digest, Vol 58, Issue 32 To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Dustin I don't usually bother to write to defend anyone or get involved in infantile comments from people like Andrey, however your comments concerning Papa's are just wrong! I have been in Russia for more years than I care to remember and have had problems with security guards on numerous occasions. This has happened even places where I have been a member....and I am a white Anglo-Saxon non-Russian looking expatriate. I am not sure if you feel that his motives were racially motivated, and they might well have been, but often they like to hassle anyone and everyone; expats and russians included. There is no point in confronting flatheads as we call them (security guards) as they are just looking for an excuse. The thing to do is to put them in their place by not speaking Russian to them for a start and asking for the Manager. Once you have explained the situation to the manager then he will make them look small. Papas is run by a Canadian called Doug Steele who is well known to the expat community and has managed many of it fine establishments over the years including Chesterfields (now the Boar House) and The Hungry Duck amongst many others. Next time ask for him and he will sort things out. He has always looked after the expatriates and Papas is a friendly and fun place to go. I also wonder bearing in mind it was a weekend, whether or not you had had you hand stamped when you went into the bar, or had mentioned to security that you were just going for a smoke? It may well be that you fell foul of the fact that generally on weekends you have to pay to get into Papa's after a certain hour. So please do not run down what is in fact a good bar because you had an unfortunate, but all too common, incident with a security guard!!!! If it has not happened to you before, it will most certainly happen again.... I suspect that you have not been in the Country long but believe me you will find out that what I have said is true. The fact that you have read so many good things about Papas should tell you something as well as the fact that so many long term expatriates drink there. Give it another chance and meet Doug and explain to him what happened. He is very customer orientated and am sure he will sort it out. Bon Chance.... -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.lists.ru/pipermail/expat/attachments/20090825/d5f40de6/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 16:30:05 +0400 From: Dima Martyanov <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Expat List Re: Peter v Andrey To: The Moscow Expat List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="koi8-r" Sorry for interfering... Though I have to... Dead-end and humiliating job... Really? Especially for those who love to take care of children and consider it the best way for them to make the world a better place. By the way, there is an army of badly paid teachers in Russian schools. Despite of any difficulty they do their work properly and with passion. Yet money is dominant, there are indisputable values which tutors help preserve. I feel really sorry for those not able to provide the proper tutoring to their children. Such offsprings usually grow up with a lack of "understanding". Sincerely, DM On Sun, Aug 23, 2009 at 9:45 PM, Alex Fak <[email protected]> wrote: > Andrei, I also find it hard to understand your concern. I think you're > making several assumptions that are not quite obvious. a) that only > "foreigners" hire nannies and private tutors for their children - I would > think this is an aspiration of every middle class Russian family as well; b) > that hiring a nanny is tantamount to "exploiting other people" - as if Peter > is forcing someone to take that job; c) that being a nanny or a tutor is a > "dead-end and humiliating job" - I don't see where you get that at all; many > educated people make perfectly successful careers out of it; d) that in this > particular case, the job pays "hardly enough to survive in Moscow" - do you > actually know what kind of salary Peter is proposing? > > Every child should be lucky enough to have his parents forego some fruits > of their hard-earned wages to give him the gift of a private tutor. Read > Malcolm Gladwell's *Outliers* - Peter's child is much more likely to > succeed in life not because his parents are well-off, but because they are > taking care to motivate and challenge him at an early age. > > Alex > > > >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 09:12:09 -0700 (PDT) >> From: Andrey <[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: Expat List Fw: Expat Digest, Vol 58, Issue 26 >> To: The Moscow Expat List <[email protected]> >> Message-ID: <[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 >> >> >> What gets me is how foreigners have no qualms about trying to exploit >> other people. Please forgive me for feeling a little peeved because of the >> brazenness with which some expats assume that well-educated and stimulating >> Russian women must be ecstatic about the possibilities of a dead-end and >> humiliating job that pays hardly enough to survive in Moscow. >> >> >> --- On Fri, 8/21/09, Peter Richter <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> > From: Peter Richter <[email protected]> >> > Subject: Expat List Fw: Expat Digest, Vol 58, Issue 26 >> > To: "Expat List" <[email protected]> >> > Date: Friday, August 21, 2009, 11:16 AM >> > Andrey, what do you have a problem >> > with... me working hard to try and offer my son the best >> > life possible or you being frustrated with your pathetic >> > life? >> > >> > On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 11:35 AM, >> > Andrey <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > Bourgeois hiring stimulating women for their obstreperous >> > offspring? I envy your son, my father couldn't afford a >> > clown! >> > >> > >> > >> > --- On Thu, 8/20/09, Peter Richter <[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > From: Peter Richter <[email protected]> >> > >> > > Subject: Expat List Looking for a reliable >> > Nanny >> > >> > > To: "Expat List" <[email protected]> >> > >> > > Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 12:45 PM >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Dear Fellow Listers... >> > >> > > >> > >> > > After 6 years we have parted from our Nanny even >> > though she >> > >> > > was a part of the family, but unfortunately our son >> > was >> > >> > > outgrowing her ability to keep up with him and his >> > needs. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > So here we are looking for a new Nanny... somebody >> > who >> > >> > > comes well recommended... English knowledge a plus, >> > but not >> > >> > > at all a must. A good education makes sense as she has >> > to be >> > >> > > able to challenge and stimulate our son also from an >> > >> > > intellectual point of view. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > We live easy to reach in Kitai Goriod with both Kitai >> > Gorod >> > >> > > and Lubljanka Metro stations within a 5 min walk. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Would appreciate any leads >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Thanks in advance >> > >> > > >> > >> > > BR >> > >> > > Peter >> > >> > > you can reply off list to [email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Expat mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://www.lists.ru/mailman/listinfo/expat > > > _______________________________________________ > Expat mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.lists.ru/mailman/listinfo/expat > http://www.expat.ru/forum/ > -- ó Õ×ÁÖÅÎÉÅÍ, äÍÉÔÒÉÊ íÁÒÔØÑÎÏ× -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.lists.ru/pipermail/expat/attachments/20090825/839bf15b/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:44:42 +0400 From: Jose Enchautegui <[email protected]> Subject: Expat List New Work permit To: The Moscow Expat List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi, Has anyone applied for a work permit under the new laws? Any hints? Thanks, Jose On 8/25/09, Iveta Promberga <[email protected]> wrote: > Its unbelievable how this conversation about "Nanny" goes on and on and > on!! > > Are you guys really happy living in this country? Judging by the mood of > local Andrey ( hating apparently expats! Andrey! Do you need language > exchange for free?) seems as locals don't like us and we love to "abuse" > their nannies! Common , Marry Poppins exists in history!!! Leave the > poor kid who needs nanny alone! > > Dear Nanny, please, tell Andrey you are ok, when you work for > P.Richter' son! Bless him. why don't we best sell Ikea wardrobes to > each other instead. > > > > > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ -- Sent from my mobile device ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 15:06:09 +0400 From: Jennifer Howard <[email protected]> Subject: Re: Expat List RE: Expat Digest, Vol 58, Issue 32 To: The Moscow Expat List <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Wow, Chris, you must have missed this part of Dustin's post: "Eventually the manager appeared at one of my friend's request and asked the guard what had happened. The manager never once spoke to me. The guard repeated his lie in Russian and I corrected him. I demanded an apology and threatened to leave without paying. The manager never once looked at me and defended his guard with some excuse about my American friend's boots." The manager was called. Perhaps it was Doug, perhaps not (although if Doug runs the place, any manager is subordinate to him). And the manager did not sort it out, did he? 2009/8/25 Chris Manuel <[email protected]> > Dustin > > I don't usually bother to write to defend anyone or get involved in > infantile comments from people like Andrey, however your comments concerning > Papa's are just wrong! > > I have been in Russia for more years than I care to remember and have had > problems with security guards on numerous occasions. This has happened even > places where I have been a member....and I am a white Anglo-Saxon > non-Russian looking expatriate. I am not sure if you feel that his motives > were racially motivated, and they might well have been, but often they like > to hassle anyone and everyone; expats and russians included. > > There is no point in confronting flatheads as we call them (security > guards) as they are just looking for an excuse. The thing to do is to put > them in their place by not speaking Russian to them for a start and asking > for the Manager. Once you have explained the situation to the manager then > he will make them look small. > > Papas is run by a Canadian called Doug Steele who is well known to the > expat community and has managed many of it fine establishments over the > years including Chesterfields (now the Boar House) and The Hungry Duck > amongst many others. Next time ask for him and he will sort things out. He > has always looked after the expatriates and Papas is a friendly and fun > place to go. > > I also wonder bearing in mind it was a weekend, whether or not you had had > you hand stamped when you went into the bar, or had mentioned to security > that you were just going for a smoke? It may well be that you fell foul of > the fact that generally on weekends you have to pay to get into Papa's after > a certain hour. > > So please do not run down what is in fact a good bar because you had an > unfortunate, but all too common, incident with a security guard!!!! If it > has not happened to you before, it will most certainly happen again.... I > suspect that you have not been in the Country long but believe me you will > find out that what I have said is true. > > The fact that you have read so many good things about Papas should tell you > something as well as the fact that so many long term expatriates drink > there. Give it another chance and meet Doug and explain to him what > happened. He is very customer orientated and am sure he will sort it out. > Bon Chance.... > > > > > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:30:39 +0400 > From: Dustin Habermann <[email protected]> > Subject: Expat List Papa's Failure > To: The Moscow Expat List <[email protected]> > Message-ID: <[email protected]> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Papa's (near Lubyanka) bills itself as a friendly place, eager to > please all, including the expat community. I've encountered numerous > mentions of them at expat.ru and waytorussia.net. However, my > experience there this weekend would seem to suggest it's just another > source of bad anecdotes of backwards Russian ideas of service. My > friend and I were "faced" coming back from a cigarette while already > dining there with a larger party for no discernable reason. What > follows are the details for any who are interested. However, I thought > it would be prudent to warn our little community that Papa's is not an > expat friendly establishment. > > I had been to Papa's once before. I was alone and enjoyed a lovely > personal pizza and was impressed with the quality of the food and > service. Everything was fast and friendly. > > So having a party of five with me this weekend I decided that Papa's > would be a fine place for us to spend an evening of food, drinks and > dancing. There were no problems when we arrived. They sat us > downstairs in the furthest room from the entrance. It was dark but > comfortable enough. We had a pizza and a few rounds of beers and wine. > After this the other smoker and I decided to step outside as the > circulation was bad and we didn't want to disturb the non-smokers in > our party. > > A quick note about our appearance- we were two mid-twenties Americans > in semi-casual but quite presentable clothes. However my friend enjoys > wearing combat boots when abroad for comfort while walking and I am > half-Filipino which means I am slightly dark. These are the only > fathomable reasons, however unjustified, that I can conceive of to > explain the treatment we were about to receive. > > After our cigarettes my friend and I chatted as we came in. Though we > were speaking in English I informed the greeters that we were already > eating there in Russian. Nothing appeared to be amiss as everyone was > all smiles. As we made our way to the staircase one of the guards > placed himself between us and the stairs and gave us a threatening look. > > My American friend speaks no Russian and my language skills leave much > to be desired but I get by in most situations just fine. I said hello > respectfully and then respectfully asked to proceed. He said no. I was > confused but then told him in short clear, Russian sentences that we > were already eating and drinking there. He didn't respond. I asked if > he spoke English and in English he told me that he didn't understand. > I then asked, again in Russian, why we weren't allowed to proceed. He > said "simply because." As a last effort I asked if it was a joke. He > said that he was serious. > > I admit at this point I became a little upset. As I had organized the > night I was the one who was going to pay. I told him that we had > already had several rounds of drinks and a pizza and that if we > weren't allowed through I would refuse to pay. This I said in > increasingly broken Russian as my language skills don't extend so far > and I was becoming frustrated. He was silent. I then called my party, > which was difficult as they were sitting underground and the signal > there was poor. The guard watched my vain efforts with smug > satisfaction for several increasingly tense minutes. > > I finally got through and then loudly said in English that, "some > barbarian" wasn't letting us down. At this word he changed completely > and started to motion us through with paniced "proceeds" but it was > already far past my patience threshhold. I told him so in English. My > native speaking Russian friends came up and the guard tried to say > that I didn't understand and that I had always been allowed to go. I > explained the real situation and insisted that we should leave without > paying. > > Eventually the manager appeared at one of my friend's request and > asked the guard what had happened. The manager never once spoke to me. > The guard repeated his lie in Russian and I corrected him. I demanded > an apology and threatened to leave without paying. The manager never > once looked at me and defended his guard with some excuse about my > American friend's boots. My Russian friends tried to convince me that > our waitress would suffer if we didn't pay. At this prospect I > relented. We returned to our table, finished our drinks and paid. We > even tipped well. > > Leaving, I confronted the guard and asked his name. After mocking my > American accent he told me it was Dimitri. I am sure it was a lie. > > Never once did anyone at the establishment apologize to any member of > our party. At one point during the confrontation one of my party > reminded the guard that he shouldn't treat paying customers so poorly. > His infantile response was that he didn't work there. Of course he > said this while wearing his uniform. > > You can take this as you like. You could just brush me off as a whiny, > self-righteous American who is over sensitive about race. "This is > Russia." Right? > > Obviously I will never go back to Papa's again and will encourage any > contact of mine to do the same. We deal with enough in this city and > there are more civilized establishments out there. Please - avoid > Papa's and help support dignity in this fine city. Lets spend our > roubles in places that do their part to move Russia past lamentable > anecdotes of lousy service. > > That all said, can anyone recommend other decent places where expats > and Russians can meet and have a good time? Thank you all for your > attention and suggestions. > > > ------------------------------ > Windows Live Messenger: Happy 10-Year Anniversary—get free winks and > emoticons. Get Them Now <http://clk.atdmt.com/UKM/go/157562755/direct/01/> > > _______________________________________________ > Expat mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.lists.ru/mailman/listinfo/expat > http://www.expat.ru/forum/ > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.lists.ru/pipermail/expat/attachments/20090825/0ff33d9c/attachment.html ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Expat mailing list [email protected] http://www.lists.ru/mailman/listinfo/expat End of Expat Digest, Vol 58, Issue 35 ************************************* **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222846709x1201493018/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=115&bcd =JulystepsfooterNO115)
_______________________________________________ Expat mailing list [email protected] http://www.lists.ru/mailman/listinfo/expat http://www.expat.ru/forum/
