-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 [..] October 4, 2003 12:20 pm, Rolf Pedersen wrote: > Well, that's not exactly how I see it. Having never used the menu item > for File Manager Super User mode, I can see where someone else might > have more of an attachment to it. There are other expected behaviors, > such as being able to decline installation of a bootloader at install > when I simply want to add an entry to an existing bootloader, that have > caused me more personal discomfiture when they have disappeared.
It's just a tool Rolf. I know that. I can work around it and even add a clickable icon on the person's desktop with a name that will make sense to them. That usually becomes strike one for me and Mandrake Linux though. I "modified" their system, mild panic and moderate paranoia starts there. <rant mode> I understand your position, hell I can understand why things are done the way they are most of the time. I'll even agree with the complaint about the behaviour of the bootloader since it's bitten me on the ass a few times. But.... Has anybody "officially" decided what the Mandrake Linux focus going forward will be? Is it Corporate desktop, home user desktop, server, or something else? That is basically a rhetorical question since it really doesn't matter. For _any_ user coming from the Windows world their entire experience has been point'n'click. That's about all Windows "System Administrators" have ever "learned" in most cases. I've read posts in various fora that sysadmins need "application/utility X" because it's the way they learned to do their jobs in MS network environments. Users shouldn't be able to xxx or yyy because the sysadmin doesn't want them to zzz. If it's a a privately owned box with one user (the owner) who the hell says that individual shouldn't be allowed to break the damned thing any way and all they like? Fine and who the devil cares? Anyone calling themselves a system administrator should be able to do anything they need with whatever tools are available because, to my mind, that's what the job *is.* The problem is some of us find the only way to convince users to try Mandrake Linux, thereby possibly exposing their employers to the distribution, is to help them install it and use it at home. They can lobby for the switch at work if they like the experience. I don't deal with corporations or government. One on one, myself and users. For most of these Windows refugees you've lost as soon as you tell them to open a terminal, or open the run dialogue. It's suddenly too hard and they don't hear a damned thing you say after that. </rant mode> > However, my overall perception is that virtually all the software in the > distro is in a fairly rapid state of flux, as there is plenty of room > for improvement, and further demands are placed on developers by the > evolution of hardware. Having tried gentoo, debian, slackware, suse, et > al, I appreciate the work that Mandrake have done to produce and > maintain this, relatively, easy to use distribution out of thousands of > disparate and changing softwares. I'm not belittling anything that's been done by Mandrake or the developers and volunteers. I'm saying that "my hobby" is convincing people to try something that most of the time scares the hell out of them; and having their fears realized before they get to the "exploration" of the system structure defeats the purpose far too often. I have nearly always been able to get someone to click an icon and type the "administrator password" to learn what the directory groupings and names look like/are. If I start talking anything more "geekish" than that these people go TILT. Then they run. > One of the strengths of Linux is the variety of choices it provides. > Considering that change is inevitable in such an environment, it is > better to concentrate on the power and flexibility of choice than get > stuck on how things used to work. For someone who doesn't even know > where the menu is, for example, it is almost easier to describe how to > use alt-F2 than how to get to Applications > File Tools > File > Manager-Super User Mode. I don't entirely disagree but see above. What I posted isn't complaints, it's observations from bitter experience. > The changes can cause some stress but I don't think that is, > necessarily, the developers' fault. A user's expectations have much to > do with stress and, as long as the functionality is attainable, > education about choices and sensible expectations can go a lot further > to reduce stress than trying to change what are, in many cases, > pragmatic consequences of development. But you'll never educate most people because they just want a tool to use. They don't want to be educated, and stop listening as soon as anything of that nature enters the conversation. > Like I said, different procedures are going to have a different > importance to different people. It's easy to be cool about something > not being there anymore when you have never used it and I don't know for > a fact that su mode won't be there when 9.2 comes out. Maybe it was > just an oversight. There are probably not sufficient personnel, at > present, for there to be a separate "ergonomics" department ( > http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=mandrake-cooker&m=105661890523522&w=2 ) > so I think they are doing the best they can with what they have. At any > rate, changes are going to happen, some way of doing something or > another will disappear for someone or another, and it's best to be > flexible. > > Rolf I don't know if it's gone permanently or not either. But I won't be able to convince too many new potential converts to try the distribution and support MandrakeSoft, or Open Source anything, if the ease of transition is lessened. I'm concerned, not complaining. Less new converts will mean less enthusiastic newbies singing Mandrake Linux' praises, and fewer new Club members or Mandrake Store customers. Around and around we go. :-( Regards; Charlie - -- Edmonton,AB,Canada User 244963 at http://counter.li.org Cooker on kernel 2.4.22-10mdk 12:32:22 up 14 days, 1:53, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.07, 0.02 Finagle's Creed: Science is true. Don't be misled by facts. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/fxxxG11CaRuZZSIRAi9zAJwOtMOIBf6bCuW+vcgg0ThOWTOL/gCgmAjq nplfOZmMbjV/JLXX7mj3Sag= =XDIr -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
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