--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Sep 24, 2007, at 9:58 PM, new.morning wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "BillyG." <wgm4u@> wrote: > > > > > > Personally, I question whether or not he is enlightened > > > especially when he started damning democracy and suggesting > > > Bush was Hitler, that doesn't strike me as coming from someone > > > who is enlightened! > > > > Your posts raises some interesting themes -- a discussion bobbing > > up and down here through the years. Since you have some degree of > > opinion or experience on the matter, I ask you and anyone the > > following -- not in a challenging way but an exploratory way to > > see the diversity of views and direct experiences for the > > following. > > > > In your framework (or direct experience) what does come from > > someone who is enlightened? > > > > Are people with certain characteristics unable to get enlightened? > > > > What are these bad characteristics? > > > > Could Tony Soprano be, or become, enlightened (in this life)? > > > > If not, how effective is TM (or name you favorite sadhana, > > practice or path), if they can't enlighten everyone? > > > > Would Tony Soprano's behavior change if he were enlightened? > > > > Particularly if yes, then does everyone's behavior become better > > in enlightenment? All aspects of behavior, or just some? Which > > aspects? > > One of my favorite texts to read is the > Chaturashiti-Siddha-Pravritti > (Tib.: Grub thob brgyad bcu tsa bzhi'i lo rgyus): the Legends of the > 84 Siddhas. The stories detail the enlightenment of 84 very > different human beings, not unlike ones any of us might meet today: > a hedonist, a scholar, a temple whore, a thief, a chronic liar, a > snob, etc. Each one found their unique guru and each guru, based > on their students particular neurosis, gave a sadhana, a > prescription for release, based on the students unique condition. > And they all attained perfect enlightenment. Their traditions > continue up to this very day. > > So yes, any student, if given the appropriate technique for their > particular condition, can obtain perfect enlightenment. One > technique will not suit all students anymore than one medicine > will cure all diseases.
I could not agree more. One of my favorite things to read is stories of the early life of Milarepa. He became an accomplished (though unenlightened) siddha master, and because of his samskaras and youth and rashness, overreacted to the villagers dissing his Mom and wasted the whole lot of them. In other words, he was a murderer, many times over. And yet. Working with Marpa (whom I have heard referred to jokingly in Tibetan sects as "Marpa the Prick" because of his sometimes ruthless methods), Milarepa managed to become not only enlightened, but one of Tibet's most celebrated yogis. IMO enlightenment doesn't have anything to do with the things that many people project upon it or consider it's "prerequisites" or "dependencies." It is the natural state of life, and just as attainable in the life of a Tony Soprano as it is in the life of a Gandhi. We may have *preferences* in terms of behavior and demeanor that we project onto the supposedly enlight- ened, but that's all they are -- preferences. Not one of them is binding, and not one of them (IMO) has any- thing whatsoever to do with enlightenment itself. That said, preferences are important in themselves. Consider what I was talking about in an early post today, the "resonance effect" that one feels around some teachers, and that one does *not* feel around others. If you are by predilection a bit of a New Age Twif, and can't stand to see violent movies or hear talk of that kind of reality, are you going to find a resonance with a teacher who is *not* offended by such things? Even if the teacher in question is fully, 100% enlightened? Well, duh...I think the obvious answer is No. You might feel more of a res- onance with someone who acts more like a New Age Twif. And that's *important*. You *should* have that kind of resonance with a teacher you choose to work with. All I'm saying is that these preferences have nothing to do with enlightenment. > In inner-tantra we have a saying "the more wood, the more fire", > meaning whatever ones particular obscurations are, they can be > used as fuel for realization, given the right teacher and the > right techniques. Right on.
