As a narcissist, it's hard for me to enter the POV of another, and I'm thinking that this may be a major dynamic in my never having had the experience of receiving shakti from darshan.
I'm thinking that some disciples can want so badly to be seeing through the eyes of their guru that, well, I hate to use this word, but they "hypnotize" themselves into the experience. In a dream, what cannot be experienced? If so, then who can doubt that the most common person could rassle up some bliss when they "daydream" about their guru? Self induced, to me, is Occam's razor giving us the simplest explanation. We are all gods who can manufacture any experience -- only we don't because we think we're unenlightened, but in special cases we let ourselves slip off of this notion about ourselves and leap to the stance of the guru and take a look around from the POV -- this done with projective imagining -- not by receiving energy or sucking energy out of a guru IMO. And all the gurus are screaming that they are merely the externalized Self of the disciple anyway, so, logically, it IS Self induced, eh? Watch any child playing with toys -- those toys are alive with the energy projected. I remember at age 7 rolling about 20 marbles along the floor and being thrilled that I was a cowboy and these were my cattle. Why not, then, gurus being played with in just such a fashion? It's called love. Put your attention on anything and it blooms before your eyes. Putting one's attention on the supposed "good parts" of one's guru might, indeed, be a powerful hypnotic technique for some personalities -- a relentless focusing of one's mind on certain qualities -- who would be surprised to have a rush up the backbone? Edg -- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Turq, yes and no, really. Except for your experiences in places of > power that you had no prior expectation of anything special, I'd say > no; the reason being that there was some, albeit perhaps slight, > anticipation of something special in the other instances you > mentioned. For instance, the museum show: right there you have both > a formalized proscenium as your setting and the context of ritual and > religious objects, particularly for you who as a student of > meditation and Tibetan Buddhism, would certainly have some interest > (and you did because that's why you went), but also even for > the "lay" people who walked into a special place to see a special > show. > > And as an aside, 'artifacts' are essentially the manifest respository > of someone's attention; the more time putting one's attention on > something and the more fundamental the underlying intention > underlying that attention was, the more power (I feel) the object can > hold and radiate. A religious icon or murti or ritual implement, > made first with the intensity of attention such an object demands, > coupled with the long and fervent attention of others who have used > or appreciated or meditated on the object over a long period of time > builds up and carries a lot of that shakti (attention). > > As to Rama's golden glow zap, sure you didn't see it coming, but > you've written before about his ability to tune in and turn on > certain folks, yourself included, so that doesn't fit what I was > asking about, either, though it sounds totally fine and wish I'd been > there myself. > > The unexpected power places does fit what I was talking about, and > I've had those experiences, too. But what I'm interested in is if > anyone's had the experience of getting high from someone that they > didn't know or have any reason to expect anything out of the ordinary > from. You know, Guru Dev in a crowd, Buddha traveling incognito, God > rummaging through the trash looking for something either edible or > recyclable. > > Doesn't really much matter, I guess, but who doesn't love to be high, > exalted, to glow from within? I feel certain that there are folks > like that wandering around whose interior hum could innocently reset > my own(Maughm's Larry Darrell pulling up in his taxi and > asking "Where to?"); just never ran across one of them myself. > > Marek > > ** > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Marek Reavis" <reavismarek@> > > wrote: > > > > > > Certainly the mindset (of the darshan receiver) and the setting > are > > > factors which provide a fertile ground for the experience of a > > > purported saint's darshan. Most interesting to me would be the > > > occassion in which the darshan came from an unexpected source, > i.e., > > > one that neither the darshan receiver anticipated and was in no > > > other > > > way elevated or singled out from the background as a 'possible' > or > > > anticipatory source; in other words, not someone on stage or > sitting > > > elevated on a dias, or behind a microphone covered in garlands, > etc. > > > This would be the unprepossesing, humble saint type of darshan -- > > > illumination radiating from someone shining bright in his or her > own > > > effulgence. Has anyone ever experienced anything like that? > > > > I've had many such experiences, and they all > > contributed to the way I phrased my post on > > this subject earlier. In terms of "unexpected > > darshan" in the presence of objects, my strong- > > est experience of this was at a museum in Albu- > > qurque, New Mexico. There was an exhibit of > > Tibetan art there, and for some reason I'd been > > putting off checking it out, thinking, "How good > > could an exhibition of Tibetan art be in *Albu- > > querque*, ferchrissakes. > > > > Boy, was I wrong. It turns out that the show was > > curated by the most famous curator of Tibetan art > > on the planet. He had retired a few years earlier, > > but was coaxed out of retirement to do this show, > > with the challenge, "Do something you've never > > done before." So he mounted a show of objects that > > had never been displayed in public before. All were > > from private collections, and had been for decades, > > in some cases hundreds of years. > > > > But I didn't know any of this. I was just taking > > some woman friend of a friend to the Albuquerque > > airport as a favor. I hate to say this, but 1) she > > talked incessantly, and 2) she had nothing to say > > when she talked. And I was stuck with her during > > this trip to the museum. Suffice it to say that I > > was *not* in a mood-making mood or had "set myself > > up" for any kind of spiritual experience. > > > > But ten feet inside the door of the museum and it > > hit me like a ton of bricks. I literally had to > > find a bench and sit down, the silence and light > > were that intense. And I wasn't the only one to > > notice. I'd see "straight" tourists stand in front > > of a centuries-old lapis lazuli Buddha and go weak > > in the knees and have to be supported by their > > spouses. They just didn't know what was happening > > to them. *Very* powerful experience, and as you > > say, completely unexpected. > > > > During the times I studied with the Rama guy, I > > had quite a few instances of "unexpected darshan" > > with him. One night I was waiting in line for a > > movie in Westwood with my girlfriend and suddenly > > everything "went gold." It stopped both of us in > > our tracks and in our conversation. The light had > > gotten "lively" and we both felt a profound shift > > in our states of attention. We were talking about > > it when Rama snuck up behind us and poked me in > > the side and said, "Gotcha." He was like that. :-) > > > > Lots of similar experiences in places of power that > > I didn't *know* were places of power beforehand. > > I'd just go there out of curiosity and find myself > > settling into meditative or clear-witnessing states. > > > > Is that the sort of thing you were asking about? > > >
