I will check this with physicist friends, but my understanding of the vacuum state of the quantum field is that it is not separate. In other words, Wilber's is a straw man argument, unless he's referring to a common misunderstanding of the quantum vacuum.
----- Original Message ---- From: Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 4:28:56 PM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Quantum Lies, was Monism "If they [believers in quantum physics being related to pure consciousness, spirit, etc.] try to take something like the quantum vacuum potential or some quantum level of reality that seems to be unmanifest and they want to say "that's spirit", "that's Brahman", "that's Tao" and it gives rise to this manifest world "over here". And they want to say that as a concrete actual reality, in other words there really is this "thing" over here that gives rise to this material electron "over here". Now already you have a "dualistic spirit"! You just fundamentally messed it up right there. Actual non-dual spirit is the suchness of everything that's arising. It doesn't cause anything to do anything. So it's the actual "is-ness", the suchness, the emptiness that every single thing--anywhere in the kosmos--is simultaneously. So pure emptiness leaves everything exactly as it finds it. It doesn't push or pull anything because it's not separate from anything." Ken Wilber, Does Physics Prove God? On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:56 PM, Vaj wrote: Good point. The Vacuum State is more similar to the akasha (the space element). And akasha being the so-called "fifth element" is already within the other elements, in fact it's what they have in common. But it is also the first (relative value) to separate from the void. On Jan 2, 2008, at 4:43 PM, tertonzeno wrote: -No. There's no connection between Pure Consciousness and the Vacuum State of any Field, (say the long sought-after Higgs field). The cosmic/quantum vacuum is seething with energy; but the vacuum can be equated with an element, the space element; and is thus relative. <!-- #ygrp-mkp{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;font-family:Arial;margin:14px 0px;padding:0px 14px;} #ygrp-mkp hr{ border:1px solid #d8d8d8;} #ygrp-mkp #hd{ color:#628c2a;font-size:85%;font-weight:bold;line-height:122%;margin:10px 0px;} #ygrp-mkp #ads{ margin-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-mkp .ad{ padding:0 0;} #ygrp-mkp .ad a{ color:#0000ff;text-decoration:none;} --> <!-- #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc{ font-family:Arial;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc #hd{ margin:10px 0px;font-weight:bold;font-size:78%;line-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ygrp-lc .ad{ margin-bottom:10px;padding:0 0;} --> <!-- #ygrp-mlmsg {font-size:13px;font-family:arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg table {font-size:inherit;font:100%;} #ygrp-mlmsg select, input, textarea {font:99% arial, helvetica, clean, sans-serif;} #ygrp-mlmsg pre, code {font:115% monospace;} #ygrp-mlmsg * {line-height:1.22em;} #ygrp-text{ font-family:Georgia; } #ygrp-text p{ margin:0 0 1em 0;} #ygrp-tpmsgs{ font-family:Arial; clear:both;} #ygrp-vitnav{ padding-top:10px;font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;margin:0;} #ygrp-vitnav a{ padding:0 1px;} #ygrp-actbar{ clear:both;margin:25px 0;white-space:nowrap;color:#666;text-align:right;} #ygrp-actbar .left{ float:left;white-space:nowrap;} .bld{font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-grft{ font-family:Verdana;font-size:77%;padding:15px 0;} #ygrp-ft{ font-family:verdana;font-size:77%;border-top:1px solid #666; padding:5px 0; } #ygrp-mlmsg #logo{ padding-bottom:10px;} #ygrp-vital{ background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:2px 0 8px 8px;} #ygrp-vital #vithd{ font-size:77%;font-family:Verdana;font-weight:bold;color:#333;text-transform:uppercase;} #ygrp-vital ul{ padding:0;margin:2px 0;} #ygrp-vital ul li{ list-style-type:none;clear:both;border:1px solid #e0ecee; } #ygrp-vital ul li .ct{ font-weight:bold;color:#ff7900;float:right;width:2em;text-align:right;padding-right:.5em;} #ygrp-vital ul li .cat{ font-weight:bold;} #ygrp-vital a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-vital a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor #hd{ color:#999;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov{ padding:6px 13px;background-color:#e0ecee;margin-bottom:20px;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov ul{ padding:0 0 0 8px;margin:0;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li{ list-style-type:square;padding:6px 0;font-size:77%;} #ygrp-sponsor #ov li a{ text-decoration:none;font-size:130%;} #ygrp-sponsor #nc{ background-color:#eee;margin-bottom:20px;padding:0 8px;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad{ padding:8px 0;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad #hd1{ font-family:Arial;font-weight:bold;color:#628c2a;font-size:100%;line-height:122%;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a{ text-decoration:none;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad a:hover{ text-decoration:underline;} #ygrp-sponsor .ad p{ margin:0;} o{font-size:0;} .MsoNormal{ margin:0 0 0 0;} #ygrp-text tt{ font-size:120%;} blockquote{margin:0 0 0 4px;} .replbq{margin:4;} --> Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
