So therefore it's not Pure Consciousness. That's > what I was forced to conclude based on my direct experience. It > became clear such thought free states were restful, but not > necessarily helpful, at least to me. I could see, for example, how > cultivating such states could make one feel tired or even depressed.
I know you have made this point before but I appreciate you repeating it. It is fascinating. I think the first link Judy gave me spells out some of the difficulties in discussing these experiences and comparing them. http://www.bu.edu/wcp/Papers/Reli/ReliMaho.htm It is a great article. But it really only applies when we are discussing the experiences. Your own experiences of the differences for yourself doesn't have the same language problem. It might be possible that the similar experience is experienced differently due the the different belief system context, although I doubt that is how you would see it. About the possible negative effects of the state reached in TM, I don't rule it out but it doesn't match my experience yet. I did conclude that the length of time I was experiencing the full siddhi program was too much of this state for me. I guess I have a measured view of the benefit outside meditation so there is a limit to how much time I am willing to devote. Plus I do believe that extended states of dissociative awareness is not good for me. I may be wrong but that is my belief now. I did not hear about people experiencing these negative results from just TM. I am more dubious about the siddhis due to the length of time, rather than the techniques themselves. I think they are just hokum and are really just an excuses to stay in the meditative state longer giving you something to "do". I have no faith that Maharishi was doing more than winging it with the siddhis and don't believe that Patanjali is a historical precedent for their practice. I don't feel a desire to go beyond my simple peaceful state of meditation and am not convinced that more radical shifts of consciousness is even a good thing, let alone a revelation concerning our deepest natures. I think we are really at the beginning of our understanding of these states and have zero faith in traditional views on their value. But of course I am happy that you are a guinea pig and willing to discuss your own experiences. Is this something that you would practice regularly like TM? How does it relate to your practice of eyes open meditaton? Please feel free to take the discussion offline if this is too personal for a group forum. I greatly appreciate your willingness to discuss your perspective and experiences. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Jul 9, 2008, at 11:05 AM, curtisdeltablues wrote: > > > Consequently practitioners often end > up conflating thought-free > > states with PC or "Transcendental > Consciousness", at least IME. > > > > I'm sure I am in this camp too. My point was that I don't give > > scriptures, especially considering the vagaries of translation, a lot > > of stock these days. For all I know Patanjali was mentally ill. I > > may not have the belief system to go much further than my superficial > > appreciation of a peaceful meditation. > > > > I am interested in your own experiences today in making such a > > distinction. How is it meaningful for you? > > > Well, I was used to the thought free state I used to experience in TM > and very familiar with it. As I and a number of others have pointed > out, we were shocked when this thought free state we came to think of > as "Pure Consciousness" was transcended in other forms of samadhi > meditation. It's a shocking experience to say the least. I've had the > same experience both with other Hindu forms of samadhi meditation and > Buddhist meditation. So I began to use the new techniques I had to > explore this thought free state and looked at them side-by-side with > the experiential views in both traditions. The conclusion I came to > was that it was a subtly "compounded" state. Since it is compounded > and therefore created by some factor(s), it exists within time, since > it exists within time, it will arise and eventually perish. It was > not beyond time. So therefore it's not Pure Consciousness. That's > what I was forced to conclude based on my direct experience. It > became clear such thought free states were restful, but not > necessarily helpful, at least to me. I could see, for example, how > cultivating such states could make one feel tired or even depressed. >
