On Sep 13, 2008, at 7:47 PM, ddeadlus wrote:
Sure that's possible I suppose, but it doesn't feel that way. A lot of
writers talk about how there was this one "moment" where everything
changed and that was that. This was the case with Eckhart Tolle, Byron
Katie, etc... It turns out, however that after their Enlightenment,
which was real,
Well, it does depend on who you ask. Both of those you mention make me
want to hurl. Maybe it's just a disconnect, dunno. But these two don't
do anything for me, although both have said some nice things.
it took some time for their personality to really
understand what that means (Eckhart Tolle spent 3 years on a park
bench doing nothing to integrate it, Byron Katie spent a year
examining all of her old thoughts and ideas and discarding them one by
one because they did not apply anymore. David Carse and Adyashanti
have talked about similar integration as well, where Adyashanti goes
into great detail about the after-Enlightenment integration). The
personality getting used to what has happened is what it feels like is
going on with me.
Yes, there is some truth to that if the awakening was authentic. The
saying among yogis is "meditation is not, getting used to is." It is
all about 'getting used to' a radically new perspective or View. Once
that View is obtained meditation is "not" as there's no meditator left
to meditate on any thing.
For me, talking about was always a way to help
integrate and process it, there's no reason my integration process
would change suddenly. It's not that it's about the talking mind you,
but somehow it's helpful, and often both parties get a lot out of it,
because it's an exchange, not a one way dialogue.
By the way, it's not an experience. The "experience" I described
initially is a reality to me. It's always there, solid, tangible,
undeniable and more real than anything else.
In terms of conventional speech, I'd agree when referring to awakening.
That's why I'll often try to frame this type of experience (as is
common in enlightenment literature) as "unconventional experience" (a
conventional experience by contrast will always be dependent on some
dualistic process). But the rub is that despite the unconventional
experience, we're still stuck using the natural dualism of
conventional speech. This is a natural barrier.
It gives rise to
everything else. It feel perfectly natural, but it's not anything I
ever could have envisioned. It's beyond any concept I had of
Enlightenment (which I was living before this happened). There are no
"spiritual experiences" anymore as separate from all of life. What
sound like spiritual experiences are just my focusing on the
expansive, cosmic aspect of the apparent day to day experiences. The
thing is, this reality now renders all relative experiences obsolete.
If that's the case, then it would be hard to understand your non-
conventional experience as being at the root of BOTH samsara and
nirvana since samsara would naturally fall to relative existence.
You're "dividing yourself" in two! You can't reject one or devalue one
and claim undivided wholeness.
Of course the danger here is that I'm just teaching you to be a better
delusional wordsmith. Email is not the best vehicle for clarification
of View. Body language is an important part of communication and
direct verification is an important, no key, condition. Less wiggle
room. I know in my own experience my own teacher could disarm me with
a mere sentence, word or even look.
It took a while to "get used to".
It needs to validation because it cannot possibly be invalidated. It's
like looking at an ink and paper drawing and realizing, for real, that
it's just a drawing. The picture is the same as it always was, but
it's really just ink and paper and nothing more. What happens within
the image is totally irrelevant to existence or validation, so it's
not that I'm looking for that at all. Again, if I wanted validation,
why would I come HERE?
Well I hope you realize that the statement "It needs to validation
because it cannot possibly be invalidated" could also be the ravings
of a mental patient.
You should at least check with your Primary Care Physician...or at
least be able to fool him or her!
Having watched quite a few practitioners present themselves to the
master and claiming enlightenment, it's pretty amazing how any of us
can deceive ourselves.
I did learn TM and the Sidhi's but I have not practiced for many
years. I never really liked it, and that went out the window when I
got serious about discovering the Truth. I'm sure it works for many,
but it wasn't right for me.
