--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yes, that's all good and fine, but are you understanding this to mean that a realized person can not exhibit angry behavior?
Apparently. From the Gita-traditions, its pretty straightforward, and repeated many times, from many angles. > Why would that occur? Forget about me. Let's talk about MMY, somebody that, I assume, we can agree is Self-realized. Have you ever seen him royally pissed-off? I have. It is a sight to behold. Raw power. Many others on this list have seen him pissed-off too. I have seen Maharishi exhibit intense displeasure over large-scale, organizational things. Not personal things. That is a large difference that English perhaps does not well distinguish. I would term what I have seen of Maharishi as something like "serious corrective focus" or "supreme peeling off the bs" or "engraining a deep point in his staff". The behavior you miscast as anger in Maharishi, IMO, has a quality of severe and intense focus. Personal anger, what I beleive the gita is referring to, is a very scattered, explosive unfocused, chaotic thing. They are quite different. I have never seen him exhibit a perterbed, disquieted mind or petty personal frustrations from meeting a resistance. Indeed in my experience, he often is a consistent resevoir of flexibility and resilience, of graceousness and humor, often absorbing or turning around situations that would make most others frustrated and angry. And this is often with a work load and sleep schedule that would make most people so fried as to be explosively raw and angry. Are you equating your frequent anger as the same type of thing exhibited by Maharishi? Have you seen SS Ravi Shankar angry? Karunamayi? Mother Meera? Its near impossible for me to concieve of anger within them. > Does that mean that he is not enlightened? Of course not. I don't waste my time pondering if someone is enlightened or not. I look to their qualities. For me, Maharishi has some mixed qualities. To me, the majority are deep, wonderful and sublime. > The understanding of the scripture is incorrect. It does mean an enlightened being can not get angry. Thats a convenient interpretation. And fits the trend of defining enlightenment anyway one likes. To me, it points to the many downsides and folly of seeking "enlightenment", proclaiming enlightenment, or playing the enlightened one. Read the full gita text, quote after quote. Upon reading that, and in your personal experience of silence and wholness, tell us what role does anger play for spritually absorbed, spiritually mature people? Its an experiential oxymoron to me. > anonymousff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:> > Why would one take seriously an enlightenment > > > consisting of > > > aggregrevated anger? > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Peter Sutphen > wrote: > > > In all seriousness, what does anger or the lack > > thereof have to do with enlightenment? Are you > > assuming enlightenment excludes anger? > > > > I don't know. > > What tradition / teacher has proclaimed you to be enlightened? Is the > Bhagavad-Gita part of their tradition? > > Gita-related traditions hold that anger not a good quality, and > certainly not one found in one who is "a sage of steady Prajna", has > fulfilled all desires, is not deluded, is "fully absorbed in Me > (Krishna), taking refuge in Me, and purified by the fire of > Self-knowledge, many have attained Me", "a yogi and a happy person", > "a Self-realized person who has subdued the mind and senses [and who] > easily attains nirvana, "a sage [who] is verily liberated", "endowed > with divine virtues", "one [who] becomes fit for attaining oneness > with Brahman ... Absorbed in Brahman", "liberated from these three > gates of hell... and attains the supreme goal". > > > Bhagavad-Gita > > 2:56 A person whose mind is unperturbed by sorrow, who does not crave > pleasures, and who is free from attachment, fear, and ANGER; such a > person is called a sage of steady Prajna. (2.56) > > One develops attachment to sense objects by thinking about sense > objects. Desire for sense objects comes from attachment to sense > objects, and ANGER comes from unfulfilled desires. (2.62) > > Delusion arises from ANGER. The mind is bewildered by delusion. > Reasoning is destroyed when the mind is bewildered. One falls down > (from the right path) when reasoning is destroyed. (2.63) > > The Supreme Lord said: It is Kaama and ANGER born of Rajo Guna. Kaama > is insatiable and is a great devil. Know this as the enemy. (3.37) > > Kaama, the passionate desire for all sensual and material pleasures, > becomes ANGER if it is unfulfilled. As the fire is covered by smoke, > as a mirror by dust, and as an embryo by the amnion, similarly the > Self-knowledge gets obscured by Kaama. (3.38) > > Freed from attachment, fear, and ANGER; fully absorbed in Me, taking > refuge in Me, and purified by the fire of Self-knowledge, many have > attained Me. (4.10) > > One who is able to withstand the impulse of lust and ANGER before > death is a yogi, and a happy person. (5.23) > > A Self-realized person who is free from lust and ANGER, and who has > subdued the mind and senses easily attains nirvana. (5.26) > > With senses, mind, and intellect under control; having liberation as > the prime goal; free from lust, ANGER, and fear; such a sage is verily > liberated. (5.28) > > The Supreme Lord said: Fearlessness, purity of heart, perseverance in > the yoga of knowledge, charity, sense restraint, sacrifice, study of > the scriptures, austerity, honesty; (16.01) > Nonviolence, truthfulness, absence of ANGER, renunciation, equanimity, > abstaining from malicious talk, compassion for all creatures, freedom > from greed, gentleness, modesty, absence of fickleness; (16.02) > Splendor, forgiveness, fortitude, cleanliness, absence of malice, and > absence of pride; these are the qualities of those endowed with divine > virtues, O Arjuna. (16.03) > > Bound by hundreds of ties of desire and enslaved by lust and ANGER; > they strive to obtain wealth by unlawful means for the fulfillment of > desires. They think: (16.12) > This has been gained by me today, I shall fulfill this desire, this is > mine and this wealth also shall be mine in the future; (16.13) > > Clinging to egoism, power, arrogance, lust, and ANGER; these malicious > people hate Me (who dwells) in their own body and others' bodies. (16.18) > I hurl these haters, cruel, sinful, and mean people of the world, into > the wombs of demons again and again. (16.19) > > Lust, ANGER, and greed are the three gates of hell leading to the > downfall (or bondage) of Jeeva. Therefore, one must (learn to) give up > these three. (16.21) > One who is liberated from these three gates of hell, O Arjuna, does > what is best, and attains the supreme goal. (16.22) > > Relinquishing egotism, violence, pride, lust, ANGER, and desire for > possession; free from the notion of "my", and peaceful; one becomes > fit for attaining oneness with Brahman. (18.53) > Absorbed in Brahman, the serene one neither grieves nor desires; > becoming impartial to all beings, one obtains My supreme devotion. (18.54) > To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
