Really excellent discussion all around; and this last post is really well said.
** --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > fair enough. the way that i think about enlightenment is probably > > different than most views on it, in that it has its validation in > > action only, feet on the street, not concepts or thinking about > > stuff. > > But doesn't it serve as a filter for what happens in your life? For > example if you had something happen that you had been thinking about > the day before, would you interpret that there was a connection > between your desire and the thing happening? For me I would not make > that connection. I don't believe that my inner desire affects the > world except to the degree that it can motivate my ass to do something > about making it happen. > > > > > so if i said to you that i thought enlightenment was the same as > > living as close to a non-neurotic, fully actualized state as humanly > > possible, and that once this state was achieved, it generated its > > own momentum in that direction of full potential, what would you say > > then? > > That may be sort of a match since I do believe in the concept of self > actualization especially as defined by Maslow. But I'm not sure that > full potential actualized is an option for humans. I'm happy with the > amount of awareness that I am bringing to the table in my life and I > enjoy growing in my ability to bring more each day. I value life-long > learning and being able to effect change in my own life. > > > > > i find it interesting that you mention altered states as something > > associated with enlightenment, whereas i would say that an altered > > state has nothing to do with enlightenment. > > That is my substitution for "higher states" from the Maharishi system. > I have had enough experience in how much you can alter your > functioning with meditation to believe that people can be walking > around in a different style of awareness. I'm just not convinced that > the traditional explanations are the best understanding of those > states. I would make a distinction between the state cultivated by > meditation and what temporarily happens if you smoke some weed > although they are both "altered" from what preceded it. > > > > > anyway i am interested in getting beyond concepts too, and just > > seeing if there is someplace you find yourself subjectively that is > > functionally equivalent to enlightenment, but without using the word? > > Growing older has given me many of the qualities of mind and self > awareness that I had associated with the term when I was young. But > the term implies a certainty in knowledge of the world that I would > never claim. But I'm happy riding the short bus of life! I haven't > met anyone yet who seemed to be functioning on a level that impresses > me so much that I would need a word like enlightened to describe them. > Guys like Maharishi for example are such super ambitious people and I > can't relate to how high he ratcheted up his self regard. I suspect a > narcissistic disorder may be part of what make him function as he did. > Most people like that are people users in a way that this old hippie > can't stand. > > I think most long term meditators feel themselves to be pretty > "enlightened up." I know that I did. I used to react negatively to > that when I sensed it after I left the movement. Now I am more open > to the idea that for some people it is a useful self perception for > them. I try to be as open minded as I can be about how other people > move through their world. > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, enlightened_dawn11 > <no_reply@> wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" > > <curtisdeltablues@> wrote: > > > > > > > what is your current view on enlightenment? > > > > > > Thanks for answering. Most of my exposure to the concept was > > through > > > Maharishi. When I was doing his programs I felt satisfied that I > > was > > > growing in the experiences he discussed, so I understand the > > appeal. > > > Now I don't value those experiences the same way. I know we are > > > capable of interesting altered states of mind, but I no longer > > > associate those states with being beneficial in the traditional way > > > Maharishi did. > > > > > > I think of enlightenment as a concept used as a way of interpreting > > > one's inner and outer experiences. It isn't a concept that has a > > lot > > > of personal meaning to me in my life, although other people's > > beliefs > > > about it interest me. I understand that it isn't believed to be a > > > "concept" by people who believe they are enlightened or growing in > > > that state. But that is how I think of it now. > > > > > > When I left the TM mindset, I was very surprised at how much my > > inner > > > experiences cultivated through meditation were in fact shaped by > > the > > > conceptual belief filters. Since having that realization when I > > left > > > the movement, I got more interested in how people create their > > belief > > > filters than the experiences of the states of mind from > > meditation. > > > That drives a lot of my interest in people here. > > > > > > Thanks for the rap and for sharing personal details. That is what > > > makes this place an interesting intellectual resource. > > > > > fair enough. the way that i think about enlightenment is probably > > different than most views on it, in that it has its validation in > > action only, feet on the street, not concepts or thinking about > > stuff. > > > > so if i said to you that i thought enlightenment was the same as > > living as close to a non-neurotic, fully actualized state as humanly > > possible, and that once this state was achieved, it generated its > > own momentum in that direction of full potential, what would you say > > then? > > > > i find it interesting that you mention altered states as something > > associated with enlightenment, whereas i would say that an altered > > state has nothing to do with enlightenment. > > > > anyway i am interested in getting beyond concepts too, and just > > seeing if there is someplace you find yourself subjectively that is > > functionally equivalent to enlightenment, but without using the word? > > >
