Kirk, You amaze me with how you can roll out the scholarship.
I find that the teachers of Advaita today are not getting over the bar that Ramana and Nisargadatta set. That's not a completely unfounded bias on my part since I've studied quite hard and have read a lot of the neo-Advaitans' works, but their writings leave me cold -- I don't feel the passion-borne-of-clarity of Ramana and Nisargadatta. I maintain that it's hard to find someone who seems to grok what Ramana and Nisargadatta were "not talking about." Commonly we find "teachers" who seem to think that the experience of "pure Being" equates to "realizing the Absolute," but I think identification with a soul (a body/mind system) is the primal psychic dynamic of ignorance...that even residing in samadhi (an action: being) is not freedom from materiality -- even though it is freedom from attachment, it is not freedom from "projection of identity into the realm of consciousness." To me, getting to pure being is the jumping out of the box point where one can finally stop identification and reside in identity without having to have a doppelganger embodiment to "prove its existence." I remember reading some Sci-Fi Fantasy novel in which some folks did a mystic rite to "call back" some spiritual figure from "heaven," and his first words we're something like: "This had better be important for you to challenge my 50,000 years of bliss." To which I would have replied: "Don't bother me with your addiction to blissful silence, get over it or suffer the fate of Indra Who must eventually die." There is nothing to seek worth the seeking. Stop swimming with the gunas and bragging about your enlightened dolphin pals. It is not enough to merely transcend into being, not enough to gain the physical set up that is so stress free that one can maintain the residing within pure being -- that's merely being perfect. Whacha want, ya see, is to be imperfect too, and the only way to have it all is to be that which CAN have it all -- the Absolute. Only the Absolute can "embrace-contain" evil and good without creating a paradox or dissonance. Pure being can have evil and good in balance, but only the Absolute can have "pure being" without being thrown off its balance. Pure being is sattvic by virtue of all the gunas being in harmony, and, so, that virtue's a quality, and that's the making for a dualistic-polarity, and that's a real challenge to the definition of the Absolute, so our definition of the Absolute must necessarily encompass more than "mere harmony," more than "mere perfection," more than "mere sainthood." The goal of existence is not "the having of a great meat robot that never sins and is in harmony with the laws of nature." That goal should be "achieving the ability to finally stop Identity from flowing to the incredibly small "all of creation" when it should be flowing into "all of uncreated possibilities" too. This stopping of that flow is an act of grace alone -- a pure gifting -- not an achieving. The enlightenment formula is: reside in being, wait for grace. I gotta stop here -- at some point even I cannot believe any reader has gotten this far into my argument. As I've insisted many times here, it is not a matter of logical clarity to grasp what Ramana is talking about, it is a matter of saturational clarity, it is a matter of growing the neurons' connections until that clarity dawns. I don't know that I have that clarity, but I sure have something deeper going on than when I first read Ramana's words. When I first read his stuff, (after 29 years of TM stuff) I simply didn't get it, but now, it's easy-peasy to me to read any of his statements and see that he's always pointing towards "that which cannot be pointed at." Ramana's never a salesman for "The Brand New Chrysler Corinthian Leather Soul." He never espouses incarnation of any sort be it a saint or a god, or even The God of gods such as Shiva. Ramana would send you nowhere to find the Absolute -- not to a prayer, not to Brahma's divine feet. You can't get there from here. There's no directions to be given to get to where you are already at. Yet, Ramana's self inquiry does the hat trick. It puts the mind to death instantly. I love this stuff. As Jim Carrey says in The Mask: Somebody stop me! Exactly. Or as Henny Youngman might have said: "Take my life, please." Edg --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Kirk" <kirk_bernha...@...> wrote: > > Duve, Buddhist void is same as Advaitic Absolute. Advaita being a latecomer > to India, probably first proposed by the shunyatists or derived from them. > Buddhist tantrics over the ages mixed and hid in India all over subtly > influencing local rhythms and knowledge. There never was an > institutionalized education system in India so you see, and definite > interpretations of this study are really more localized and meant for the > few. I have heard HH Penor Rinpoche's translator describe Shunyata as > Vishnu. But he did that in response to some people wearing Hindu deities on > their shirts at the retreat. Hindu deities in Vajrayana are the same thing > as Buddhists deities though some are seen as purely worldly and not leading > to liberation. However Buddhist deities not so much in Hinduism though rare > combinations like Nilakanthabuddha in Nepal, a Shiva/Buddha, and Saraswati > in both, Mahakali, though done differently, Tara cult is long lived and may > preceed Buddhism even. We cannot know the roots of any of these terms or to > whom they were being aimed at. > > In Vajrayana, a deity is a method for liberation and wisdom. This is really > prime to understanding anything, Absolute, relative, and so on and make it > usable as wisdom. If transcendence cannot be turned to jnana then it is > sorely used. Transcendence - turiyah - vritti nirodaha is basic principal > for all yogic schools of East. For primary meditation or yoga. "Superior" > schools of thought see energies in that turiyah and identify them as > something or another. Dzogchen takes the whole visual phenomenon and knowing > that since it cannot be understood it makes that the very technique to 'leap > over' samsara or changing reality. Thus liberation is lived simultaneously > with changing phenomena. Visually, at any time, the mind may 'leap over' > > Shunyata is not a theory it is the essential nature of all. Nothing can have > a name placed to it and be turned into something immortal or eternal. Even > propitiating deities is implying that they will never change their minds. > Deities cannot be trusted. Which face of Shiva will you propitiate? Will it > help to make offerings to all faces? Vajrayana turn puja into 'tsok' which > is eaten by all and at least not just burned up. Of course they also have > their fire pujas, but typically Vajrayana have various standards of 'tsok,' > some being more liberal than others. > > Imagine if after evening program every night everybody broke out some food > and sang a song and had a drink together? As Maharishi would himself have > said, "Peace is created through celebration." > > I still have no clue what advaita means. Or what use it is. I hate hearing > people go around and slight everything and act all wise - it's sickening. Is > that what advaita is? > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duveyoung" <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> > To: <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 10:27 AM > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: Elvis-shakti > > > > Vaj, > > > > Can you give me the skinny on Kornfield regarding how much of Advaita he > > supports? I see he lists Nisargadatta as a teacher of his -- yet most of > > his education came from Buddhists. > > > > I guess a question I would ask first is: is the Buddhist "void" the same > > as the Advaitic "absolute?" > > > > Edg > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote: > >> > >> Confusing Charisma with Wisdom > >> > >> Another source of spiritual misunderstanding is our confusion of > >> charisma with true wisdom. Certain spiritual leaders possess the > >> ability to evoke extraordinary states. Amplified by our hopes, > >> feelings of bliss and transcendence arise easily around these > >> charismatic ministers, priests, Zen masters, mystics, rabbis, and > >> gurus. It is easy to mistake such spiritual powers as definite signs > >> of wisdom or enlightenment or divine love. We forget that power and > >> charisma are just power and charisma, that these energies can just as > >> easily serve demagogues, politicians, and entertainers. > >> > >> It is possible for someone to be charismatic but not wise. Conversely, > >> wisdom is not necessarily flashy or powerful--it can manifest in a > >> humble and simple heart, and in the most ordinary-seeming of lives. In > >> communities where special spiritual power is highly valued, students > >> should take special care: When secret teachings or ancient lineages > >> are evoked, when one group is chosen to be saved or awakened above all > >> others in the world, spiritual communities are ripe for becoming > >> cults. This does not always happen, of course, but it is a particular > >> risk within the blinding arena of charisma. Wise traditions include > >> safeguards against such misuse, often by the creation of a network of > >> elders, respected teachers able to watch over one another's spiritual > >> condition and behavior. > >> > >> > >> -Jack Kornfield, After the Ecstasy, the Laundry > >> > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > To subscribe, send a message to: > > fairfieldlife-subscr...@yahoogroups.com > > > > Or go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ > > and click 'Join This Group!'Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > >
