I respect your desire to keep your own family's polygamous history private.
But, generally speaking, I am curious to know whether you support legalizing gay marriage and, if yes, whether you feel the same way about legalizing polygamous marriage? --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rf...@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "shempmcgurk" <shempmcgurk@> wrote: > > > > You say that Mormonism goes back generations on your mother's side, to the > > days of polygamy. > > > > Do you have polygamists in your anscestry? If so, what do you know about > > it? > > > > > The answer is yes, and I know quite a bit about it. But I have no interest in > discussing my personal family's history. > > If you want to know about Mormon polygamy, 'Google search' is your friend. > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "ShempMcGurk" <shempmcgurk@> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > What is your fanatical obsession with the Mormon religion, John > > > Manning? Thousands of hits come up with you on Mormon sites. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Mormon sites? I write to one Mormon site. > > > > > > I lived in Mormon Utah for 35+ years, Shremp. Mormon religion and > > > culture is a fascination of mine. It's a topic I'm intimately familiar > > > with. > > > > > > While I've never been a Mormon myself, almost everyone on my mother's > > > side of the family are[were while living] dyed-in-the-wool true believer > > > Mormons [TBMs] going back to the pioneer days and polygamy. > > > > > > Mormon culture in Utah is predominately conservative and was the reddest > > > of the red states in the last few presidential elections. > > > > > > My familiarity with the conservative Mormon culture and my political > > > views make for a delightful spicy combination that makes discussion > > > there quite [as the Mormons like to say] "delightsome" for me. > > > > > > Mesa AZ where I used to live, and I believe you may also IIRC, is > > > heavily Mormon influenced as you must know. The Mormon temple grounds > > > there with its huge pool of water is an extremely beautiful example of > > > both Mormon temple design and the desert surroundings of Mesa. > > > > > > [http://wattfam.com/aboutus/mesa.jpg] > > > > > > Mesa Arizona Temple > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" do.rflex@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "yifuxero" <yifuxero@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > --- > > > > > > from Wiki: > > > > > > [edit] Professional life > > > > > > Skousen went to work for the Agricultural Adjustment > > > Administration in June 1935. The following year he joined the Federal > > > Bureau of Investigation (FBI), where he worked until 1951. > > > > > > > > > > > > From 1951 to 1955, he taught at Brigham Young University. He > > > served as Salt Lake City, Utah police chief for four years before being > > > fired in 1960, by Mayor J. Bracken Lee.[1][2] Skousen was summarily > > > dismissed shortly after Skousen raided an illegal poker club, where J. > > > Bracken Lee was in attendance.[3][4] Lee characterized Skousen's strict > > > enforcement of anti-gambling laws as "like a Gestapo."[5][6] For the > > > next fifteen years, Skousen edited the police journal, "Law and Order". > > > He returned to Brigham Young University as a professor of religion in > > > 1967, retiring in 1978. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I took a 'Book of Mormon' class from Skousen at BYU. I enjoyed it so > > > much that I took a more advanced class from him on the same topic the > > > second semester I was there. Religion classes were mandatory, even for > > > non-Mormons such as myself. > > > > > > > > > > Skousen was an excellent Book of Mormon and scripture teacher, but > > > in my view he was also a shifty eyed creep. I didn't trust him at all on > > > a personal level. > > > > > > > > > > Two semesters was all I could stand of BYU. I transfered out to the > > > U of Utah. > > > > > > > > > > Did you read the article below, yifuxero? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "do.rflex" <do.rflex@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Meet the man who changed Glenn Beck's life - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cleon Skousen was a right-wing crank whom even conservatives > > > despised. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then Beck discovered him > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By Alexander Zaitchik - Salon.com - Sept. 16, 2009 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Excerpted from the article: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In reality...the so-called 912ers were summoned to D.C. by the > > > man who changed Beck's life, and that helps explain why the movement is > > > not the nonpartisan lovefest that Beck first sold on air with his > > > trademark tears. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beck has created a massive meet-up for the disaffected, paranoid > > > Palin-ite "death panel" wing of the GOP, those ideologues most > > > susceptible to conspiracy theories and prone to latch on to eccentric > > > distortions of fact in the name of opposing "socialism." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In that, they are true disciples of the late Mormon, W. Cleon > > > Skousen, Beck's favorite writer and the author of the bible of the 9/12 > > > movement, "The 5,000 Year Leap." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A once-famous anti-communist "historian," Skousen was too > > > extreme even for the conservative activists of the Goldwater era, but > > > Glenn Beck has now rescued him from the remainder pile of history, and > > > introduced him to a receptive new audience... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What has Beck been pushing on his legions? "Leap," first > > > published in 1981, is a heavily illustrated and factually challenged > > > attempt to explain American history through an unspoken lens of Mormon > > > theology. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Anyone who has followed Beck will recognize the book's title. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Beck has been furiously promoting "The 5,000 Year Leap" for the > > > past year, a push that peaked in March when he launched the 912 Project. > > > That month, a new edition of "The 5,000 Year Leap," complete with a > > > laudatory new foreword by none other than Glenn Beck, came out of > > > nowhere to hit No. 1 on Amazon. It remained in the top 15 all summer, > > > holding the No. 1 spot in the government category for months. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The book tops Beck's 912 Project "required reading" list, and is > > > routinely sold at 912 Project meetings where guest speakers often use it > > > as their primary source material... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But more interesting than the contents of "The 5,000 Year Leap," > > > and more revealing for what it says about 912ers and the Glenn Beck > > > Nation, is the book's author. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > W. Cleon Skousen was not a historian so much as a player in the > > > history of the American far right; less a scholar of the republic than a > > > threat to it. At least, that was the judgment of J. Edgar Hoover's FBI, > > > which maintained a file on Skousen for years that eventually totaled > > > some 2,000 pages. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Before he died in 2006 at the age of 92, Skousen's own Mormon > > > church publicly distanced itself from the foundation that Skousen > > > founded and that has published previous editions of "The 5,000 Year > > > Leap." ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---Willard Cleon Skousen was born in 1913 to American parents in > > > a small Mormon frontier town in Alberta, Canada. When he was 10 his > > > family moved to California, where he remained until he shipped off to > > > England and Ireland for Mormon missionary work. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > In 1935, after graduating from a California junior college, the > > > 23-year-old Skousen moved to Washington, where he worked briefly for a > > > New Deal farm agency. He then began a 15-year career with the FBI, also > > > earning a law degree from George Washington University in 1940. His > > > posts at the FBI were largely administrative and clerical in nature, > > > first in Washington and later in Kansas. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After retiring from the FBI in 1951, Skousen joined the faculty > > > of Brigham Young University, the Latter-day Saints university in Utah. > > > He then enjoyed a tumultuous four years as chief of police in Salt Lake > > > City. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > During his tenure he gained a reputation for cutting crime and > > > ruthlessly enforcing Mormon morals. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > But Skousen was too earnest by half. The city's > > > ultraconservative mayor, J. Bracken Lee, fired him in 1960 for excessive > > > zeal in raiding private clubs where the Mormon elite enjoyed their > > > cards. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "Skousen conducted his office as Chief of Police in exactly the > > > same manner in which the Communists operate their government," Lee wrote > > > to a friend explaining his firing of Skousen. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The man is a master of half-truths. In at least three instances > > > I have proven him to be a liar. He is a very dangerous man [and] one of > > > the greatest spenders of public funds of anyone who ever served in any > > > capacity in Salt Lake City government." ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > After his firing from the police force, Skousen became a star on > > > the profitable far-right speakers circuit. He worked for both the > > > Bircher-operated American Opinion Speakers Bureau and Fred Schwarz's > > > Christian Anti-Communism Crusade. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The two groups competed in describing ever more terrifying > > > threats posed by America's enemies, foreign and domestic. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > As the scenarios became more and more outlandish, the feds grew > > > concerned. In an internal memo, the FBI described Skousen's friend and > > > employer Fred Schwarz as "an opportunist," the likes of which "are > > > largely responsible for misinforming people and stirring them up > > > emotionally ... Schwartz [sic] and others like him can only do the > > > country and the anticommunist work of the Bureau harm." ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > By 1963, Skousen's extremism was costing him. No conservative > > > organization with any mainstream credibility wanted anything to do with > > > him. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Members of the ultraconservative American Security Council > > > kicked him out because they felt he had "gone off the deep end." One ASC > > > member who shared this opinion was William C. Mott, the judge advocate > > > general of the U.S. Navy. Mott found Skousen "money mad ... totally > > > unqualified and interested solely in furthering his own personal ends." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > When Skousen aligned himself with Robert Welch's charge that > > > Dwight Eisenhower was a "dedicated, conscious agent of the Communist > > > conspiracy," the last of Skousen's dwindling corporate clients dumped > > > him. The National Association of Manufacturers released a statement > > > condemning the Birchers and distancing itself from "any individual or > > > party" that subscribed to their views. Skousen, author of a pamphlet > > > titled "The Communist Attack on the John Birch Society," was the > > > nation's most prominent Birch defender... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Skousen laid low for much of the '60s. But he reemerged at the > > > end of the decade peddling a new and improved conspiracy that merged > > > left with right: the global capitalist mega-plot of the "dynastic rich." > > > Families like the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds, Skousen now > > > believed, used left forces -- from Ho Chi Minh to the American civil > > > rights movement -- to serve their own power... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Toward the end of Reagan's second term, Skousen became the > > > center of a minor controversy when state legislators in California > > > approved the official use of another of his books, the 1982 history text > > > "The Making of America." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Besides bursting with factual errors, Skousen's book > > > characterized African-American children as "pickaninnies" and described > > > American slave owners as the "worst victims" of the slavery system. > > > Quoting the historian Fred Albert Shannon, "The Making of America" > > > explained that "[slave] gangs in transit were usually a cheerful lot, > > > though the presence of a number of the more vicious type sometimes made > > > it necessary for them all to go in chains." ... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "The 5,000 Year Leap" is not the only Skousen title to find new > > > life on the 912 circuit. The president of the National Center for > > > Constitutional Studies, Dr. Earl Taylor Jr., is currently touring the > > > country offering daylong seminars to 912 chapters based on Skousen's > > > "Making of America." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > For $25, participants will receive a bagged lunch and stories > > > about America's religious Founders and their happy slaves. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > An ad for Taylor's "Making of America" seminar, currently > > > featured on the Web site of the Tampa 912 Project, claims that Skousen's > > > book is "considered a great masterpiece to Constitutional students [and > > > is] the 'granddaddy' of all books on the United States Constitution." > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Like so much declaimed by W. Cleon Skousen and his 21st century > > > acolyte Glenn Beck, this last statement is fantasy. But it is also a > > > profitable and popular one. In coming to terms with a movement that has > > > an ever more tenuous relationship with accepted fact, we relearn that > > > perennial lesson grasped even by J. Edgar Hoover's FBI. Fantasies can > > > have serious consequences. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Full article here: > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/09/16/beck_skousen/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
