Dear Turq,
About this wrestling. At the spiritual circus it seems some do come and
watch who are blind and do in fact see. And some come seeing that remain
blind to what they see. John Newton in history is famously one who was
blind in living his life who then came to see. Then later in life,
became blind as he could see.
The other nite earlier this last week a bunch of us conservative
meditators in FF were sitting around and I shared your e-mail with them,
the `seen-it-but-blind' example you argue here. There was a
considered long wonderment of knowing and compassion for you in the
room. We finished singing two songs for you, `King of Peace'
first and then
the `93rd Psalm'. I do admire your fight. Seems you been blest
a lot. Keep after it.
A Friend in FF,
-Doug
King of Peace:
Lord, I cannot let Thee go,
Till a blessing Thou bestow;
Do not turn away Thy face,
Mine's an urgent, pressing case.
Dost Thou ask me who I am?
Ah! my Lord, Thou know'st my name;
Yet the question gives a plea
To support my suit with Thee.
Thou didst once a wretch behold,
In rebellion, blindly bold,
Scorn Thy grace, Thy pow'r defy;
That poor rebel, Lord, was I.
Hear the tune at:
http://shapenote.net/74b.htm <http://shapenote.net/74b.htm>
93rd Psalm:
Grace! 'Tis a charming sound,
Harmonious to the ear;
Heav'n with the echo shall resound,
And all the earth shall hear.
Grace first inscribed the way
To save rebellious man;
And all the steps that grace display,
Which drew the wondrous plan.
Grace taught my wand'ring feet
To tread the heav'nly road.
And all the steps that grace display,
Which drew the wondrous plan.
Grace all the work shall crown
Through everlasting days;
It lays in heav'n the top-most stone,
And well deserves our praise.
hear the tune at:
http://shapenote.net/31t.htm <http://shapenote.net/31t.htm>
>
> Turq, this is really quite earnest and well expressed.
> And Christ rose from the grave. Miracles, healings. Was seen and it
was denied.
> Turq, this is particularly special as you write. Poignant. Oh friend,
what sophistry. "Meditation more for you", Yoda might answer. Someone
else might just shrug and advise, "know your (s)elf". Meditation happens
in this town twice daily starting at half past 7am and half past 5pm. Is
beautiful and clear. Is a great opportunity to explore the answer more
to your satisfaction. Some time, come along. You might see then.
>
> With Fond Regards,
> -Doug in FF
>
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Premanand" <premanandpaul@>
wrote:
> > >
> > > As I understand it from a muslim friend, Hindus take their
> > > mythical writings literally. I guess the question is how
> > > much we need to buy into the idea that there was once human
> > > beings who could do things that seem to defy reason. In
> > > today's world the real miracle would be for people to stop
> > > trying to convince one another that his or her religion /
> > > belief system trumps that of their neighbours. That would
> > > be something.
> >
> > Indeed it would.
> >
> > And it's related to other things I've rapped about
> > recently -- the relationship of subjective experience
> > to "Truth," and the relationship of belief to "Truth."
> >
> > I hold that there *IS* no such relationship.
> >
> > And I hold this speaking as the only person here who
> > has witnessed siddhis being performed. (Unless you
> > believe Nabby, that is.) I witnessed levitation,
> > turning invisible, turning mountains transparent,
> > and many other siddhis numerous times over a period
> > of 14 years.
> >
> > But does that make such things True? Or "Truth?"
> >
> > Not to me. All it means is that I experienced these
> > things. I've seen hang-in-midair-for-minutes-at-a-
> > time levitation *hundreds* of times, but I would not
> > claim that it exists. My subjective experience tells
> > me that it exists, but that is ONLY my subjective
> > experience. Not "Truth."
> >
> > It gets even weirder when people claim that things
> > they have NEVER experienced subjectively but have
> > only heard of are "Truth." These things aren't even
> > subjective experience; they are pure BELIEF. And yet
> > you have millions of people who are willing to claim
> > that they are "Truth," and even to wage war against
> > others who don't accept that they are "Truth."
> >
> > I think that a little fuckin' humility is in order.
> > If you experienced something subjectively, you cannot
> > declare that something to be "Truth." The most you can
> > legitimately say is that you experienced it subjectively.
> >
> > But to claim that something *you haven't even exper-
> > ienced* is "Truth" because you BELIEVE it is, or
> > because you read it in a book you consider "Truth?"
> > That's the absolute *absence* of humility.
> >
> >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB <no_reply@>
wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "John" <jr_esq@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > To All:
> > > > >
> > > > > Siddhis are not restricted to the vedic literature. We find
> > > > > similar feats in the gospels and stories of Christian saints.
> > > >
> > > > The conclusion is inescapable. Because stories of
> > > > siddhis exist in these books, siddhis must exist.
> > > >
> > > > Similarly, stories of not only siddhis but fantastic
> > > > creatures like dragons, trolls, etc. exist in other
> > > > books. These books are often referred to as "fairytales"
> > > > or "myths." Presumably these stories should be given
> > > > EXACTLY the same credence as the stories in the "vedic
> > > > literature" or in the "gospels."
> > > >
> > > > After all, there is EXACTLY the same amount of
> > > > evidence that the stories in the myths and fairytales
> > > > are true as there is that any of the stories in the
> > > > "vedic literature" or "gospels" are true. Therefore
> > > > what I think you're trying to make is that if it's
> > > > a story in a book, it's true.
> > > >
> > > > Or did I get that wrong, John? Were you suggesting
> > > > instead that something is true only if it's a story
> > > > in *some* books?
> > > >
> > > > :-)
> > > >
> > > > Just funnin' wit ya, John.
> > > >
> > > > But seriously, if you feel like it (or if *anyone*
> > > > here feels like it), please present a reason why
> > > > we should consider the Bible or the gospels or the
> > > > "vedic literature" any different from myths and
> > > > fairytales -- or for that matter from any other
> > > > form of fiction -- in terms of their credence or
> > > > accuracy.
> > > >
> > > > A reason other than "Because I believe they are,"
> > > > that is.
> > > >
> > > > I'll wait.
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
x
