--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seekliberation"
<seekliberat...@...> wrote:
>
> Wow.....it sounds like you've taken my criticism very personal! Damn
right! I highly resembled your remark
>
> That seems odd on this forum. This forum/blog site, or whatever you
call it, is a bunch of people who have insulted Gurus, Presidents,
Governers, Musicians, athletes, actors, etc... (very vehemently I might
add), And all of these individuals insulted have done much better than
any of us could ever do at what we've done with our lives. Just because
someone does better than us doesn't mean we're wrong to criticize them.
For example, Sarah Palin has been a much more successful governer than
anyone on FFL is or will ever be. But we are, and will continue to be,
relentless in our criticism of her, myself included. Same with Tiger
Woods, George W Bush, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, O.J.
Simpson.....etc.....They're all better than me(in a certain way), but
there is no doubt they're overrated and deserve some criticism.
>
> My comments (about Avatar) were nothing more than my opinion that the
movie is a bit over rated. To me, it's an equivalent of Jurrasic Park, a
visual masterpiece. The plot was by far the most boring plot, IMO, due
to its predictability and obvious borrowing from other plots and
scenarios. But for some reason you took my opinion personally. No one,
but no one insults the Nuvi on my watch.
>
> Also, you say "the problem is".........
>
> why is it a problem? Everyone on this forum insults the
accomplishments (or lack therof) of famous people every day despite the
fact that those famous people have accomplished more than anyone on this
forum ever will. Where's the problem? The problem is that Judy has
posted out for the week, and as Turq said, a vacuum has been created,
and we all know that nature abhors a vacuum, and I being an instrument
of nature had to rush to fill the vacuum. Does that many any sense?
>
> seekliberation
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "lurkernomore20002000"
steve.sundur@ wrote:
> >
>
> The problem is that it far
> > exceeds anything you could do on your wildest best day.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "seekliberation"
> > <seekliberation@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Offworld,
> > >
> > > Although I see the message behind the movie, I have to admit I
agree
> > with you 100%. This was a stolen plot from many movies that depict
some
> > primitave cultures that are archetype to previous movies (Dances
with
> > Wolves, Last of the Mohicans). Absolutely no originality whatsoever,
> > other than the graphics themselves. I remember when 'Bladerunner'
came
> > out, it was the first of its kind, in terms of the deep or subtle
lesson
> > it tried to show. Same with Star Wars, Matrix (the original one
only),
> > and several others. But as time moves on, carbon copies start being
> > made, and Avatar was nothing more than another carbon copy.
> > >
> > > Seekliberation
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Avatar was very forgetable. Its crap. I saw every next scene
coming
> > like
> > > > the MASSIVE and sickly cliche it was.
> > > >
> > > > If you have seen 3d Imax on the oceans before, then even the 3d
is
> > not
> > > > that great, plus it is some dumbasses idea of a fake nature,
rather
> > than
> > > > ACTUAL nature, which is FAR more impressive in Imax 3d, because
it
> > is
> > > > REAL, and has far more intricacy and subtlety to it.
> > > >
> > > > The story was crap, and a forgetable and stupid plot. Old hat,
> > nothing
> > > > new there. Absolutely done before many times, and cookie cutter
> > plot. No
> > > > better than some of the older Star Trek movie plots, but with
good
> > 3d.
> > > >
> > > > The Gaurdian is right: "stupid and predictable" If this gets an
> > Oscar
> > > > for anything other than good 3D graphics, then the Oscars are a
> > joke.
> > > >
> > > > OffWorld
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
> > > > <mailto:FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com , "Rick Archer" <rick@>
wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > MAWKISH, MAYBE. BUT AVATAR IS A PROFOUND, INSIGHTFUL,
IMPORTANT
> > FILM
> > > > >
> > > > > CAMERON'S BLOCKBUSTER OFFERS A CHILLING METAPHOR FOR EUROPEAN
> > BUTCHERY
> > > > OF
> > > > > THE AMERICAS. NO WONDER THE US RIGHT HATES IT.
> > > > >
> > > > > By George Monbiot
> > > > > The Guardian
> > > > > January 11, 2010
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/11/mawkish-\
\
> > \
> > > > maybe
> > > >
> >
<http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/cifamerica/2010/jan/11/mawkish-\
\
> > \
> > > > maybe> > http://www.guardian <http://www.guardian>
.co.uk/commentis
> > > > free/cifamerica/ 2010/jan/ 11/mawkish- maybe-avatar-profound-
> > important
> > > > >
> > > > > Avatar, James Cameron's blockbusting 3D film, is both
profoundly
> > silly
> > > > and
> > > > > profound. It's profound because, like most films about aliens,
it
> > is a
> > > > > metaphor for contact between different human cultures. But in
this
> > > > case the
> > > > > metaphor is conscious and precise: this is the story of
European
> > > > engagement
> > > > > with the native peoples of the Americas. It's profoundly silly
> > because
> > > > > engineering a happy ending demands a plot so stupid and
> > predictable
> > > > that it
> > > > > rips the heart out of the film. The fate of the native
Americans
> > is
> > > > much
> > > > > closer to the story told in another new film, The Road, in
which a
> > > > remnant
> > > > > population flees in terror as it is hunted to extinction.
> > > > >
> > > > > But this is a story no one wants to hear, because of the
challenge
> > it
> > > > > presents to the way we choose to see ourselves. Europe was
> > massively
> > > > > enriched by the genocides in the Americas; the American
nations
> > were
> > > > founded
> > > > > on them. This is a history we cannot accept.
> > > > >
> > > > > In his book American Holocaust, the US scholar David Stannard
> > > > documents the
> > > > > greatest acts of genocide the world has ever experienced. In
1492,
> > > > some 100
> > > > > million native people lived in the Americas. By the end of the
> > 19th
> > > > century
> > > > > almost all of them had been exterminated. Many died as a
result of
> > > > disease,
> > > > > but the mass extinction was also engineered.
> > > > >
> > > > > When the Spanish arrived in the Americas, they described a
world
> > which
> > > > could
> > > > > scarcely have been more different to their own. Europe was
ravaged
> > by
> > > > war,
> > > > > oppression, slavery, fanaticism, disease and starvation. The
> > > > populations
> > > > > they encountered were healthy, well-nourished and mostly (with
> > > > exceptions
> > > > > like the Aztecs and Incas) peaceable, democratic and
egalitarian.
> > > > Throughout
> > > > > the Americas the earliest explorers, including Columbus,
remarked
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > natives' extraordinary hospitality. The conquistadores
marvelled
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > amazing roads, canals, buildings and art they found, which in
some
> > > > cases
> > > > > outstripped anything they had seen at home. None of this
stopped
> > them
> > > > > destroying everything and everyone they encountered.
> > > > >
> > > > > The butchery began with Columbus. He slaughtered the native
people
> > of
> > > > > Hispaniola (now Haiti and the Dominican Republic) by
unimaginably
> > > > brutal
> > > > > means. His soldiers tore babies from their mothers and dashed
> > their
> > > > heads
> > > > > against rocks. They fed their dogs on living children. On one
> > occasion
> > > > they
> > > > > hung 13 Indians in honour of Christ and the 12 disciples, on a
> > gibbet
> > > > just
> > > > > low enough for their toes to touch the ground, then
disembowelled
> > them
> > > > and
> > > > > burnt them alive. Columbus ordered all the native people to
> > deliver a
> > > > > certain amount of gold every three months; anyone who failed
had
> > his
> > > > hands
> > > > > cut off. By 1535 the native population of Hispaniola had
fallen
> > from
> > > > eight
> > > > > million to zero: partly as a result of disease, partly due to
> > murder,
> > > > > overwork and starvation.
> > > > >
> > > > > The conquistadores spread this civilising mission across
central
> > and
> > > > south
> > > > > America. When they failed to reveal where their mythical
treasures
> > > > were
> > > > > hidden, the indigenous people were flogged, hanged, drowned,
> > > > dismembered,
> > > > > ripped apart by dogs, buried alive or burnt. The soldiers cut
off
> > > > women's
> > > > > breasts, sent people back to their villages with their severed
> > hands
> > > > and
> > > > > noses hung round their necks and hunted them with dogs for
sport.
> > But
> > > > most
> > > > > were killed by enslavement and disease. The Spanish discovered
> > that it
> > > > was
> > > > > cheaper to work the native Americans to death and replace them
> > than to
> > > > keep
> > > > > them alive: the life expectancy in their mines and plantations
was
> > > > three to
> > > > > four months. Within a century of their arrival, about 95% of
the
> > > > population
> > > > > of South and Central America were dead.
> > > > >
> > > > > In California during the 18th century the Spanish systematised
> > this
> > > > > extermination. A Franciscan missionary called Junpero Serra
set up
> > a
> > > > series
> > > > > of "missions": in reality concentration camps using slave
labour.
> > The
> > > > native
> > > > > people were herded in under force of arms and made to work in
the
> > > > fields on
> > > > > one fifth of the calories fed to African American slaves in
the
> > 19th
> > > > > century. They died from overwork, starvation and disease at
> > > > astonishing
> > > > > rates, and were continually replaced, wiping out the
indigenous
> > > > populations.
> > > > > Junpero Serra, the Eichmann of California, was beatified by
the
> > > > Vatican in
> > > > > 1988. He now requires one more miracle to be pronounced a
saint.
> > > > >
> > > > > While the Spanish were mostly driven by the lust for gold, the
> > British
> > > > who
> > > > > colonised North America wanted land. In New England they
> > surrounded
> > > > the
> > > > > villages of the native Americans and murdered them as they
slept.
> > As
> > > > > genocide spread westwards, it was endorsed at the highest
levels.
> > > > George
> > > > > Washington ordered the total destruction of the homes and land
of
> > the
> > > > > Iroquois. Thomas Jefferson declared that his nation's wars
with
> > the
> > > > Indians
> > > > > should be pursued until each tribe "is exterminated or is
driven
> > > > beyond the
> > > > > Mississippi" . During the Sand Creek massacre of 1864, troops
in
> > > > Colorado
> > > > > slaughtered unarmed people gathered under a flag of peace,
killing
> > > > children
> > > > > and babies, mutilating all the corpses and keeping their
victims'
> > > > genitals
> > > > > to use as tobacco pouches or to wear on their hats. Theodore
> > Roosevelt
> > > > > called this event "as rightful and beneficial a deed as ever
took
> > > > place on
> > > > > the frontier".
> > > > >
> > > > > The butchery hasn't yet ended: last month the Guardian
reported
> > that
> > > > > Brazilian ranchers in the western Amazon, having slaughtered
all
> > the
> > > > rest,
> > > > > tried to kill the last surviving member of a forest tribe. Yet
the
> > > > greatest
> > > > > acts of genocide in history scarcely ruffle our collective
> > conscience.
> > > > > Perhaps this is what would have happened had the Nazis won the
> > second
> > > > world
> > > > > war: the Holocaust would have been denied, excused or
minimised in
> > the
> > > > same
> > > > > way, even as it continued. The people of the nations
responsible
> > --
> > > > Spain,
> > > > > Britain, the US and others -- will tolerate no comparisons,
but
> > the
> > > > final
> > > > > solutions pursued in the Americas were far more successful.
Those
> > who
> > > > > commissioned or endorsed them remain national or religious
heroes.
> > > > Those who
> > > > > seek to prompt our memories are ignored or condemned.
> > > > >
> > > > > This is why the right hates Avatar. In the neocon Weekly
Standard,
> > > > John
> > > > > Podhoretz complains that the film resembles a "revisionist
> > western" in
> > > > which
> > > > > "the Indians became the good guys and the Americans the bad
guys".
> > He
> > > > says
> > > > > it asks the audience "to root for the defeat of American
soldiers
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > hands of an insurgency". Insurgency is an interesting word for
an
> > > > attempt to
> > > > > resist invasion: insurgent, like savage, is what you call
someone
> > who
> > > > has
> > > > > something you want. L'Osservatore Romano, the official
newspaper
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > Vatican, condemned the film as "just an anti-imperialistic,
> > > > > anti-militaristic parable".
> > > > >
> > > > > But at least the right knows what it is attacking. In the New
York
> > > > Times the
> > > > > liberal critic Adam Cohen praises Avatar for championing the
need
> > to
> > > > see
> > > > > clearly. It reveals, he says, "a well-known principle of
> > > > totalitarianism and
> > > > > genocide -- that it is easiest to oppress those we cannot
see".
> > But in
> > > > a
> > > > > marvellous unconscious irony, he bypasses the crashingly
obvious
> > > > metaphor
> > > > > and talks instead about the light it casts on Nazi and Soviet
> > > > atrocities. We
> > > > > have all become skilled in the art of not seeing.
> > > > >
> > > > > I agree with its rightwing critics that Avatar is crass,
mawkish
> > and
> > > > > cliched. But it speaks of a truth more important -- and more
> > dangerous
> > > > --
> > > > > than those contained in a thousand arthouse movies.
> > > > > _._,___
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
