Dear Rory, Thanks for your beautiful reply, I just finished watching the movie "Inception", which explores the subconscious multi layered shared dreams, which is a little coincidental. My roommate rented the DVD and I got hooked on it after a while. I found the movie intellectually stimulating and fun but otherwise ridiculous...:-), my comments below
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff" <rorygoff@...> wrote: > > > Dear Ravi, many thanks for replying! You say, "Wounds looked real, the healer looked real till they were healed." Yes, quite true; it is all unreal, but this sounds much like what has here been called the "Advaita shuffle" -- an argument used by such luminaries as Charles Manson and various other gurus who cite the Absolute as grounds to excuse inexcusable behavior in the Relative. The guru says, "Slay them all; who really dies?" or more frequently, "You say I stole your money and your wife -- well, really, it is all one and all a dream anyway, so who is *really* stealing and being stolen from," yada yada yada. > *** IMO - Advaita is not a philosophy it is an experiential truth - an end result rather than a starting point for me, people who do think it as a philosophy do abuse it as you have quoted above. OTOH - IMHO again it doesn't mean the objective world is not real and that there are no morals, rules of conduct. For me The belief of I and mine are the maaya. > Truth is different in different states of consciousness, and just because we know there is only one state of consciousness in reality, and everything is a dream in reality, still we take responsibility for our entire creation, and we respect the boundaries of our dream for those of Us who believe they have not yet awakened (and even for those who have). While we are beyond spacetime and beyond the three gunas, and delight equally in all of them, still those of Us who are dreaming and think they actually exist as separate Egos are also Us, and in terms of spacetime we tend to favor sattva as the most enlightening of the three gunas, and generally the most effective in awakening Us. It is sattva that in the end actually refines and clarifies the Egoic intellect enough for it finally to grasp the futility of spacetime and to see through its own projections to surrender into Us. > *** You have stated it beautifully and I agree as I stated above. > When you say, "My Guru didn't follow the Obama plan :-) - she really poked my wounds, made me so miserable that I had no choice but to make an existential leap -" it sounds perhaps as if you are (a) attempting to assume a Guru role for one who quite expressly has not entered into that contract with you, and (b) attempting to emulate your Guru's specific behavior, in a way that sounds rather like an abused kid justifying (and perpetuating) his parent's abuse: "Hell, my Pappy beat me every day, and it made me the man I am today!" I am overstating the case just to make my argument, you understand. :-) *** As I stated both the wounds and the healer turn out to be not real, so you are absolutely right on (a). (b)..LOL..not at all, as a logical corollary to answering true on (a) it clearly implies I have no interest in either emulating anyone's behavior or abusing anyone. There was a period at the end of May where I was under the grip of powerful Kundalini psychosis when I clearly went a little overboard but that's another story. In fact in my personal interactions I am mostly playful and if I am volunteering any spiritual advice I'm very gentle with most. If I had met Turq on a personal level being an Indian (a) I would have been very respectful considering his age and (b) would be very gentle. The interactions on this list belong to a different domain to me, being more impersonal and direct to the point. > > What I really mean to say is, it was not your Guru's poking of your wounds that healed you; it was Love loving You. Your wounds felt as if they were being poked because the pain-body gets stimulated by Love *as* it is being healed. The Love may feel like an attack to the pain-body, because it sees everything as an attack, but in truth Love is not an attack; Love is Love; Love is Self loving Self. *** You are spot-on sir !!! I felt more terrible in Amma's loving presence because my wounds were out in the open, it was oozing with pus and nauseating odor and I was forced to deal with it. So poking was nothing but her "Love", love was poking, love was healing... There is no Turq per se, there is only Ravi-awareness masquerading as Turq. That Ravi-awareness remembers itself quickest when we look past the Turq-dream to embrace the Ravi-awareness within the Turq-dream.... > *** Yes I'm ultimately poking fun at myself !!! It was a little boring when Turq was not around and I have stated this several times in the past. > *Love*Light*Laughter* always :-) > ***Love - Ravi Yogi > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" raviyogi@ wrote: > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Ravi Yogi" <raviyogi@> wrote: > > > > > > Thanks Rory, I really appreciate the clarification. Wounds looked > > real, > > > the healer looked real till they were healed. My Guru didn't really > > > follow the Obama plan :-) - she really poked my wounds, made me so > > > miserable that I had no choice but to make an existential leap - I'm > > > really so thankful and feel incredibly blessed. I could have easily > > > become a Turqster spending all my time advocating pro-wound, > > anti-healer > > > philosophy..LOL. > > I should correct that to pro-band aid, anti-healer philosophy.. > > > Most of the people are happy carrying on with a > > > band-aid here and there. > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "RoryGoff" rorygoff@ wrote: > > > > > > > > * * * Dear Ravi, many thanks for your reply below ... by "taking the > > > high road", I mean simply, to paraphrase Obama in his Arizona speech, > > > let's try to talk with each other in a way that heals, rather than in > > a > > > way that wounds. By "the rare opportunity we have here in this moment > > to > > > change our collective future may not last forever," I mean that life > > on > > > Earth in this moment is a rare and fleeting gift; let's try to make > > the > > > best use of our time here that we can. For me this is more about > > > apppreciation than about being "too serious" :-) > > > > > > > > > >
