--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Irmeli Mattsson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > What is a desire without expectation? > > > **** > > A desire without expectation means dedication to work on the desire > without expectation of outcome. > > I have intense desire to heal myself, but less attachment to the > outcome. It is like enjoying the journey itself. > > Expectations are limiting because you cannot know the outcome. > Expecting certain kind of outcome disturbs your walking attentively > with open eyes. Your perception gets distorted and rigid. > Especially healing means opening of new pathways and perceptions. You > cannot know them in forward. > It is tiny experiences of healing and aliveness in the present moment > that gradually accumulates to results I don't know in forward. > > Irmeli
Thata a fine "rap" as unc would say. But it has little to do with the question I posed in the original post (at end). Not to say that you need to address my points -- you are free to go off on your own thoughts and tangents. But you certainly did not address the central point of my post, if thats what you intended to do. I am not against giving up expectations in many contexts. I am asking what remains of a desire if there is no expectation. Perhaps reread what I wrote in the original post below. A desire seems tied to some thought of an outcome. If there is no thought of outcome, there is no desire, there is only an impulse towards action. If there is no expectation, it implies all outcomes are random. If so, then what is the role of desire? If I "desire" to watch a DVD movie, but if the action of opening the refrigerator, taking a nap or turning on the DVD player all have the equal random probability of producing a movie, then the link between desire and outcome is so weak, I hold one would lose "desire". If I have no credible and repeatable way to "play a movie", then why desire it. Its like a desire to be a trillionaire. I have no credible way of becoming one, so the desire is not really there. I have no credible way of dating Heather Graham, so I don't really desire it. I have no credible way of becoming President of the United States, at this point in my life, so I don't really desire it. Beyond this theme, is another "absurdity" in the idea of "giving up expectations" It can can go to abusrd levels if taken to all contexts. If all actions and outcomes are just random, for example, if you walk towards a wall, do you hold thre is an equal probability that you will walk through it as being "bumped" by it? The very basis of rational thought, inquiry, scientific method and understanding of nature is the systematic study of what outcomes occur when particular actions are take. And the EXPECTATION that the outcomes will repeat themselves when the action is repeated. For example, when you turn on the light switch, do you not have an expectation of light? I have this image, not of you, but the image becomes comic, seeing a new-age, daffy type girl (Lisa Kudrow's character Phoebe on "Friends" perhaps) turning on the lightswitch and going, "well, what ever happens is total kewl. I don't really expect the light to go on, or to stay off. I am just playing with the switch, clicking it, another random act with any number of possible random outcomes. la de da. The universe will do what the universe will do." (well maybe thats a bit to involved for phoebe.) So my thoughts are: 1) Giving up expectations for "uncontrollable" actions/outcomes is a good thing. 2) When expectations are given up for actions that have uncontrollable outcomes, then the ensuing link to desire is weakened and desire shivels to an impotent form, or dissappears altogether. 3) The process of identifying the link between actions and outcomes, and EXPECTING these "found" "dis" "covered" links to be repeateable, and having an expectation they will repeatly occur when the causal action is taken, is a good thing, and the basis of science and technology. What are your thoughts on such? ------------------- What is a desire without expectation? It seems, at best, to be a eunuch desire. Or a paraplaegic desire. If there is no expectation, then there is no link between an impulse towards action and its result. Desires in that context appear empty, phantom, vacuous. I am not questioning the beauty of letting go of expectations -- and all of its offspring such as judgements. (How can you judge a person if you have no expectations of their behavior?) I don't see how desires exist (or last very long) without expectations. Without expectation, what remains are impulses towards activity. "Do that which ought to be done" captures part of that mode but can imply a moral authority. Its more "Do that which ought to be done -- the 'ought' not being dictated by some moral authority or code, but from rational analysis, common sense and sometimes intuition." To subscribe, send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ and click 'Join This Group!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
