--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
<anartaxius@...> wrote:
>
> --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Garland Ph.D, the Quantum Energy Doc"
> <gs66214@> wrote:
> >
> > I will ad a bit to this discussion if that is ok. Normally I do not enter
> > such things but since I do know a bit about this I will say a few words. At
> > this point I would say that no one can make a statement that the TM siddhas
> > are not reaching samadhi. Defining samhadhi is still very much in its
> > infancy and brain wave research may not be the best way to do ascertain
> > this state. But it also says in many spiritual texts that the enlightened
> > do not sleep...perhaps the state of samadhi is being awake while the brain
> > is in an almost sleep like state. It would be different than sleep because
> > one is still awake. Also if consciousness is indeed quantum based it maybe
> > that the correlates of samadhi would not be in the brain and it related
> > waves because samadhi is beyond brain function.....
>
> Why would consciousness if quantum based be beyond brain function? It would
> still be in the physical realm if quantum physics was involved. If it were
> 'beyond' the physical world, as some seem to think, it would have nothing to
> do with quantum physics at all, and could never be discovered scientifically.
> I think of this though, as a mistake of the intellect. I think the physical
> world and consciousness and the spiritual value of life are one and the same.
> 'Infinite correlation' as sometimes said in the TMO.
>
> > Interesting Patanjali stated the yoga sutras were needed to test whether
> > one was in samadhi or not... perhaps that is a better test than brain
> > waves...but I like what the new research on TM is finding...and hope they
> > continue to expand and find interesting corrolates...
>
> I remember an audio tape by MMY discussing different levels of samadhi in the
> yoga sutras, but now cannot remember any of those details, but it was one of
> the more interesting things I have ever heard MMY speak of. It concerned
> chapter 1 or 2 of the yoga sutras, not the chapter on sanyama. I do not
> recall if he discussed which value of samadhi was associated with sanyama.
>
> Most of the other traditions I am familiar with feel that what sanyama deals
> with is a danger to progress toward enlightenment.
>
>
>
> > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister <no_reply@> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius"
> > > <anartaxius@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj <vajradhatu@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Mar 30, 2012, at 10:37 AM, Buck wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > That's a good point. Though I do like the notice of the larger
> > > > > > quote. In life you do run into folks like this. For instance, in
> > > > > > old Quakerism these people are noticed as 'Weighty Friends', people
> > > > > >
> > > > > > who could bring a field effect of grace and well-being just coming
> > > > > > along to and being in a silent Quaker meeting.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Unfortunately for Fairfield domers, Patanjali's sutra on pacification
> > > > >
> > > > > is predicated on the achievement of samadhi - and we know from
> > > > > science that the neural correlates of samadhi have never been seen in
> > > > >
> > > > > TMers or Sidhahas. In fact, we know that TM occurs solely within
> > > > > descending cycles of wake-sleep. Pretty disappointing really. If
> > > > > napping brought world peace, there would have been peaces long, long
> > > > > ago.
> > > > >
> > > > > He also warns that cultivating sidhis is an impediment to
> > > > > enlightenment and a welcome mat for delusion. Do you really want to
> > > > > be radiating that crap? But I guess this is what happens when you
> > > > > follow a false guru - really, it's what you'd expect, no?
> > > > >
> > > > > We need more spiritual Olympians, not more Kindergartners!
> > > >
> > > > Vaj, just what are the neurological correlates of samadhi? And where in
> > > > Patanjali's writing does he mention the impediment to enlightenment.
> > >
> > > I believe he is referring to III 38:
> > >
> > > te samaadhaav upasargaa vyutthaane siddhayaH.
> > >
> > > If can't translate Bhojadeva's 'te praakpratipaaditaaH...' or Vyaasa's
> > > 'te praatibhaadayaH...', IMO he better STFU... ;D
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I am not questioning what you say here (not yet anyway) I just do not
> > > know the answer, where it is in the yoga sutras - one can certainly find
> > > this prohibition in other works in the Indian, and other traditions. The
> > > correlates question implies knowledge of research on other meditation
> > > systems and the results thereof, not just TM. I just want to know where
> > > the data you seem to be quoting or assuming here is to be found. There
> > > has been a lot of research on Buddhist monks, that has been conveniently
> > > overlooked by the TMO, but I am not very familiar with it.
> > > >
> > >
Here is a passage from the Yoga Sutras, where Patanjali states that the sutras
are both attainments, but can become obstacles if they are experienced as
attachments...
Yoga Sutras 3.50-3.52:
Renunciation that brings
Kaivalya or Liberation
Reaching the finest level of mind: In the preceding sutras (3.17-3.37,
3.39-3.49), many types of experience were described. As these are encountered,
the yogi goes ever deeper into the levels of his or her own being. Each is
encountered, explored, experienced, and set aside, so as to go still deeper
(3.38). Finally comes the finest of the levels of individuality, the sattvic
buddhi. (3.50)
Distinction between sattvic buddhi and purusha: Here, in this sutra, one not
only experiences the discrimination between the subtlest aspect of mind and
consciousness itself (purusha), this distinction becomes well established.
(3.50)
With that comes mastery: When that subtle-most distinction has happened, and is
well established, there comes mastery over all forms or states of existence, as
well as over all forms of knowing. (3.50)
Renouncing that subtlety brings liberation: When even this finest distinction
between sattvic buddhi and purusha is set aside (1.15, 3.38), there comes
absolute realization or kaivalya (3.51).
Declining celestial invitations: The invitations of the disembodied or
celestial beings for experiences or powers are declined (3.52).
top
3.50 To one well established in the knowledge of the distinction between the
purest aspect of mind and consciousness itself, there comes supremacy over all
forms or states of existence, as well as over all forms of knowing.
(sattva purusha anyata khyati matrasya sarva-bhava adhisthatrittvam
sarva-jnatritvam cha)
[Note: In some renditions this is sutra 3.48 or 3.49]
sattva = purity aspect of mind field or chitta, subtlest individuation, purest
aspect of buddhi
purusha = pure consciousness
anyata = distinction between, difference
khyati = through knowledge, vision, discernment, correct cognition, clarity,
awareness
matrasya = only, merely
sarva-bhava = over all states or forms of existence, omnipotence (sarva = all;
bhava = states or forms of existence)
adhisthatrittvam = supremacy
sarva-jnatritvam = all knowingness, omniscience (sarva = all; jnatritvam =
knowingness)
cha = and
Reaching the finest level of mind: In the preceding sutras (3.17-3.37,
3.39-3.49), many types of experience were described. As these are encountered,
the yogi goes ever deeper into the levels of his or her own being. Each is
encountered, explored, experienced, and set aside, so as to go still deeper.
Finally comes the finest of the levels of individuality, the sattvic buddhi.
Distinction between sattvic buddhi and purusha: Here, in this sutra, one not
only experiences the discrimination between the subtlest aspect of mind and
consciousness itself (purusha), this distinction becomes well established.
With that comes mastery: When that subtle-most distinction has happened, and is
well established, there comes mastery over all forms or states of existence, as
well as over all forms of knowing.
Subtlest level of discrimination: Initially, buddhi is utilized as the means
that decides, judges, and discriminates (2.26-2.29). When this discrimination
is clouded, we act out of our habit patterns, not from choice. Eventually, we
come to see that it was buddhi who carved up consciousness and the universe in
the first place, experiencing the many dualities. Here, when the sutra speaks
of discriminating between buddhi and purusha, this is what is being addressed.
It is not referring to buddhi at the surface level, such as deciding what is
useful and not useful in our life activities. Rather, it is the subtlest aspect
of buddhi that is being discriminated as different from purusha. This is the
discrimination that leads towards liberation (3.51).
Attainments and obstacles: As with the other subtle experiences this is seen to
be both an attainment and an obstacle, and is set aside (3.38) with
non-attachment (1.15).
top
3.51 With non-attachment or desirelessness even for that supremacy over forms
and states of existence and the omniscience (3.50), the seeds at the root of
those bondages are destroyed, and absolute liberation is attained.
(tad vairagya api dosa bija ksaya kaivalyam)
[Note: In some renditions this is sutra 3.49 or 3.50]
tad = that
vairagya = desirelessness, non-attachment, dispassion
api = also, even
dosa = impairment, bondage, defect, imperfection
bija = seed
ksaya = with the elimination, destruction
kaivalyam = absolute liberation, independence, freedom
That mastery is subject to attachment: Recall that the fundamental trap is of
becoming entangled with the fluctuations of the mind field (1.4). Even this
mastery over all forms and states of existence and omniscience forms
impressions in the basement of the mind, and these are also subject to becoming
colored (klishta) with attraction (2.7). The degree to which the yogi develops
non-attachment becomes ever subtler (1.15-1.16), all the way up to this finest
level.
This non-attachment brings liberation: When the coloring (klishta) of this
attachment to mastery over all forms and states of existence and omniscience is
surrendered, and non-attachment ensues, there comes liberation. At the lesser
levels of attainment, the non-attachment opens the door to the next subtler
layer, for which the process must be repeated. However, at this subtlest level,
there is no more level, so there is final liberation between consciousness and
the many fluctuations of the mind field (1.3).
Attainments and obstacles: As with the other subtle experiences this is seen to
be both an attainment and an obstacle, and is set aside (3.38) with
non-attachment (1.15).
http://swamij.com/yoga-sutras-keys.htm#6
