Hi Doc, what did it for me was when the Catholic Church declared that it was no longer a mortal sin to eat meat on Friday. I was only 17 but a big red flag started waving in my head, wondering: last week if a person ate meat on Friday and died before confessing it, they went to hell for all eternity?! But this week, not so much?! That was the beginning of the end, the final straw being when I heard about the Inquisition in a World History class at Univ of MD. As for supposed authority figures nowadays, I go by their vibe, by how grounded and compassionate they feel to me. Lots of teachers and healers with these qualities come to FF. I feel fortunate.
________________________________ From: "doctordumb...@rocketmail.com" <doctordumb...@rocketmail.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:38 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: parsing a la Descartes was HITLER'S VALENTINE Remember that bumper sticker, "Question Authority"? Excellent advice. I was brought up in a very much roll your own environment, where a relationship had to be successfully developed with another country and culture every three years, for my first twenty. Pop Quiz. So I learned from an early age to assess what was going on around me, and what I had to deal with, vs. the voices of authority (parents, teachers, gurus, bosses, cops), telling me what I should, or should not do. I didn't always get it right on my own, but it gave me a healthy respect for my observations, vs. acting on someone else's story. --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <jchwelch@...> wrote: > > Thanks for chiming in Curtis. > > I am making no definitive conclusions. And yes, I have more than Judy's > filter to assess you (or anyone) and more than others' filters to assess > Judy. I prefer to not assess at all; but alas, that is part of our humanity > and we all do it in some degree each day. > > I know you have nothing to do with Knapp. My working through my experience > with Knapp is my own; it happens to have come up as I was lurking in on the > recent conversations and then when Judy brought up parts of the history > behind those conversations. > > Knapp did a true mindfuck on me and, for good and/or bad, it affected > me...especially regarding online relationships. It affected how I approach > those relationships. For awhile, I dropped out of online activity; even > thought about deleting all my blogs and just disappearing into 3-D life. > (Which I probably will some day, but I want it to be on my timetable and not > pushed there in a reaction to someone else.) I hope, in the long wrong, I am > able to make Knapp's affect on my psyche a good one. That said, it would take > a whole lot for me to ever trust anything (and I mean anything) the man > states. > > I don't take Judy's perspective as some clear truth. (I'm not saying that you > think I do. I'm just addressing your statement.) > > I do take Judy's perspective (and her digging up the history with links) into > account; as stated, I trust her and her opinions do hold weight for me. > Barry's opinions hold zero weight and that is not because of Judy but because > of my observations of and interactions with Barry on FFL. (I'm sure Barry > will loose no sleep over my statement, if he even reads it.) > > Your perspective holds weight with me too. You come across to me as > reasonable. That said, Knapp came across to me as such...and thus I have > little flags that go off. (Not that I believe those flags, but I've learned > to not ignore them.) > > I have no place in this 'battle' (for lack of a better word). I hesitated > whether or not to post anything at all. I knew I would make myself vulnerable > when I did. I decided for my own growth (as selfish as that is), the > vulnerability was worth any perceived so-called risk. > > If I want to reach definitive conclusions about all these relationships and > peoples' characters, it would take much more reading on my part; something I > don't have the energy or time to do currently. Even then, I don't know if I > would reach a definitive judgment. There is usually a million things behind > the scenes that is not expressed or known. > > I do take online relationships as authentically as I am able to. Behind the > keyboard is a real person with a real heart and an abundance of life > experiences. I can only speculate a person's intent (unless I know the > person..and even then..I could be wrong). If a person means ill will and if > their intent is to harm and use others as merchandise, eventually that may > come out. People who have such intentions have to look in their own mirror > each day. > > I haven't gotten the impression that your intent is ill will; nor have I > gotten that impression of Judy. > > Thanks again. > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "curtisdeltablues" <curtisdeltablues@> > wrote: > > > > Carol I believe you have a much better way to asses the kind of person I am > > beyond Judy's filter. I have nothing to do with John Knapp or his > > perspective, and in fact have my own stories which I am really not > > interested in sharing on a public board. > > > > Robin and I really enjoyed communicating on this board for a long time and > > I think we both feel that period was a highlight in our posting history > > here. The complex reasons that lead to our falling out are not even clear > > to either of us, and we have both processed some of them openly here on > > this forum. > > > > The risk of doing that is that someone with ill will toward one of us can > > use specific statements for their own goals. That is the nature of a > > public forum and the evaluation of it's risk reward balance is always a > > continual assessment for me. > > > > Judy's view of what went on between Robin and me is not some clear "truth" > > about it. It is her very unflattering opinion of me which has been a > > consistent theme for a very long time. The topic changes, but the > > narrative is the same. Although I don't have a very flattering view of > > Judy either, I am not interested in making a case for my opinion by > > fighting a war of quotes with her here. That is not a statement of me > > conceding that her view is accurate. > > > > I thought I owed you that explanation at least. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Carol" <jchwelch@> wrote: > > > > > > I'm only a lurker in this dialog. I haven't read all the exchanges that > > > have gone on in the latest conflict. Until these last few posts, I knew > > > next to nothing about what you have expounded here Judy. Thanks for > > > filling in some history for me. I don't know if I will go back and read > > > all of the recent conflict or the prior history, but at least I have a > > > place to start if I decide to. > > > > > > Reading the bit I have as I have lurked, the dialog is all too familiar > > > within the anti-cult circles I've had brushes with. Projection. > > > Sidestepping accountability for one's words. Speculating of other > > > people's motives. > > > > > > As I've read, I've not been sure who to believe and wondered why I even > > > care. I thought how I sometimes long for innocence and wish to be an > > > ostrich...as trite and childish as that may sound. > > > > > > I wrote some thoughts earlier after reading Judy's initial post today, > > > trying to work through some of the muddle in my own head as I've read > > > bits of this recent conflict. > > > > > > In writing those thoughts, I wondered why am I muddled? Why does this > > > stuff even matter to me? Should I state anything publicly? Will I sound > > > foolish? What if I do sound foolish, what difference does it really make? > > > Has some of the dialog 'triggered' my own stuff that I am still working > > > through after my involvement in a 'cult' and certain anti-cult 'cults?' > > > > > > I questioned my own biases and fairness. Do I judge other's motives? How > > > much do I project? How much do my biases play into reading others? Like > > > others, my own experiences have caused me to be less trusting of others; > > > I already had been well trained to not trust my self and was gaining much > > > ground in that area until the Knapp crap. I have picked up many of those > > > pieces, but reading this recent dialog brought some of that stuff up > > > again. > > > > > > Years ago, Judy had read Knapp correctly and called him out. I won't go > > > into how I had rationalized the Knapp I thought I knew when I first came > > > to FFL in 2010(?) or maybe it was 2009(?) and read some of Judy's posts > > > calling Knapp out. I would never (at that time) have imagined she would > > > be so spot on. But she was. Could she be right again? > > > > > > I'll stop here... > > > > > > A few of my muddled thoughts...for what they're worth. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <authfriend@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Ravi Chivukula <chivukula.ravi@> > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for this, you knew Curtis was twisting here since > > > > > they were full of mutual admiration back then. Robin was > > > > > certainly a very fascinating character but I couldn't > > > > > understand Robin's fascination and admiration for Curtis > > > > > when he came on board but then figured he would have to > > > > > figure Curtis out for himself, which he did. > > > > > > > > Curtis was on his very best behavior, at his most charming, > > > > with Robin at first. Their dialogue was really scintillating, > > > > some of the best I've seen on any Web forum. It was beautiful > > > > to see how much Robin was enjoying himself after his bleak > > > > quarter-century in virtual exile. He just expanded like a > > > > flower. > > > > > > > > I had no clue what was going to happen down the road. Even > > > > after they first began to fall out, reading their exchanges > > > > was like watching a highly competitive contest between two > > > > extremely skilled players. After each post, you couldn't wait > > > > to see how the other guy could possibly top it. > > > > > > > > > I don't believe you and I ever interfered in their > > > > > correspondence, I certainly never did > > > > > > > > At one point toward the end I became a topic of their > > > > arguments, and I had to step in and correct some things > > > > Curtis said about me that were not accurate. But > > > > otherwise I just soaked up their brilliance. > > > > > > > > > and had zero interest in their dialogue at that point - I > > > > > used to be too high anyway. > > > > > > > > Yeah, you were doing your own thing. If you ever have a > > > > dull patch, though, go back and take a look at their > > > > exchanges. Terrifically entertaining, and heart-wrenching > > > > to watch it crash and burn. > > > > > > > > > >
