Salyavin, I still think all this has something to do with WHOLE brain functioning. I still think either there's no brain that does this and or science doesn't have instruments to measure such. I postulate that if both of these happened, it would be obvious that consciousness gives rise to matter. Am I totally brain washed?!
________________________________ From: salyavin808 <fintlewoodle...@mail.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 22, 2013 6:57 AM Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "sparaig" <LEnglish5@...> wrote: > > What is consciousness? > > Tononi's Integrated Information Theory asserts that the level consciousness > depends on a certain sophistication in the interaction of parts of a system. > People point out that this means that even rocks are conscious, but Tononi > doesn't like that interpretation and tries to make exceptions so that his > theory can't be interpreted that way. Why doesn't he just dump the whole stupid thing and be done with it? > Even so, the level of interaction at the vacuum state is such that you can't > deny a certain consciousness-like aspect to that particuar system. Except that it isn't conscious in any meaningful way. > What is fun, is that in the early moments of the universe, the universe was > so small that you could think of it as one single system that interacted fast > enough due to its small size, that the entire thing could be seen as one > system. For almost a trillionth of a second, yes. This is the same thing Hagelin uses to justify astrology and reading tea leaves. It is BS that it means anything of the sort or consciousness or anything other than a bunch of hot whirly bits that know nothing about themselves or each other. > Interestingly enough, MMY describes the loss of consciousness of the entire > system as the time at which matter and energy manifest, and in fact, at a > certain point in the expansion of the universe, it cooled due to expansion to > the point that what we call normal matter and energy came to be. So the > universe got too big for the entire thing to communicate in a conscious way > somewhere along the same time that matter and energy manifested. > > Fascinating. I wonder if he had that description in mind all along when he > worded things that way in his description of Vedic Cosmology. > > > L > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" <fintlewoodlewix@> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > > Inspired by something Xeno said I ask you Salyavin: does consciousness > > > emerge from matter or does matter emerge from consciousness? Or is > > > something else altogether happening? > > > > "Does matter emerge from consciousness?" It's a weird mystical > > idea that started in the far east and was an early interpretation > > of quantum mechanics. I can't see how the statement makes sense, > > it seems to contradict everything we know about evolution both > > of life and the universe itself. > > > > I don't see how you can keep the second law of thermodynamics if everything > > is from the mind, unless god doesn't care about his creation after all. > > Basically, cosmic consciousness must be falling > > apart too just like everything else. Like all quantum mystical > > ideas it complicates things unnecessarily. It helps sell yagyas > > though but I don't like the idea of perpetuating ancient religions with the > > language of science especially when it isn't very good science. > > > > I've been reading about free will (or the lack of it) all day, > > some interesting experiments can be done to demonstrate that > > your brain makes a measurable decision to act up to a second > > before you "decide" to do something. Consciousness appears to > > be last in a chain of neurophysiological events. Not sure how > > that would give it primacy over everything else. > > > > > > "Does consciousness emerge from matter?" That's more like it, > > it fits in with observations and doesn't require gods, whether > > quantum or biblical. There is even a fabulous structure in our > > heads that can be measured to be displaying consciousness and > > having thoughts. Give me the most obvious explanation every > > time. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > From: salyavin808 <fintlewoodlewix@> > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 2:32 PM > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, > > > Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Share Long <sharelong60@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Salyavin wrote: Once you have enough brain cells you have > > > > consciousness. Share asks: I've been reading all of today's > > > > posts, again with mixed success. Anyway, I'm guessing that I have > > > > the same amount of brain cells right now that I had during last night > > > > when I was dreaming and also when I was sleeping without dreams. I > > > > was pretty conscious during the dreams. I feel very conscious at > > > > this moment. But I'm pretty sure I was not conscious during the > > > > whole night. So it would seem that even though the number of brain > > > > cells remains constant, consciousness, as an experience, does not. > > > >    > > > > > > I meant that you need a certain amount to generate consciousness > > > anyway. They stay amount stays the same overnight. But the fact > > > that it gets switched off at night is another interesting > > > evolutionary adaptation. Must take up a lot of energy generating > > > all that bright inner awareness. The brain needs a bit of down time > > > to assimilate the days events and reset itself or we go mad. Really. > > > And then there's keeping us out of trouble in the dark where our > > > primary sense isn't any use. Amazing thing really. > > > > > > I got knocked out and lost my memory once, that was interesting. > > > I'll do a post about it tomorrow as it had a lot of fascinating > > > features for a philosophical chap like me. > > > > > > > > > > > PS I realize I'm taking little baby steps. It's the best I can > > > > do with this topic. Thanks for your patience. BTW, speaking of > > > > the hot human brain, scientists have recently theorized that one of the > > > > functions of yawning is to cool the brain. > > > > > > > ________________________________ > > > > From: salyavin808 <fintlewoodlewix@> > > > > To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com > > > > Sent: Monday, May 20, 2013 1:31 PM > > > > Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: SELF-HYPNOTIZE: Channel, End Negativity, > > > > Feel Good, Achieve Goals Dr. Shelley S > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >  > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "PaliGap" <compost1uk@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "salyavin808" > > > > > <fintlewoodlewix@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > "The condemned man may live for several days or even weeks. > > > > > > > But, he believes so strongly in the curse that has been > > > > > > > uttered, that he will surely die. It is said that the ritual > > > > > > > loading of the kundela creates a "spear of thought" which > > > > > > > pierces the victim when the bone is pointed at him. It is as > > > > > > > if an actual spear has been thrust at him and his death is > > > > > > > certain." > > > > > > > > > > > > Anxiety is a powerful thing. > > > > > > > > > > So it seems. The "cause" of the anxiety was of course a purely > > > > > mental thing (or a thing in the realm of "meaning"), and > > > > > NOT a physical thing. And the anxiety was the effect, not > > > > > the cause. > > > > > > > > When I think "anxiety" I think "adrenalin" which is physical. > > > > The idea of what is frightening is held as a memory or instinct, > > > > which is an obvious evolutionary advantage. what to be scared of > > > > can also be learned, did you know it only takes two events of > > > > any sort before the brain makes a neural link to alert the rest > > > > of the system how to behave next time the stimulus is encountered. > > > > > > > > For instance, if you get nearly run over once the adrenalin > > > > dies away and the typical brain will put it down to experience. > > > > Twice and you will start to get anxious going near a road. > > > > Simple as that, and the funny thing about adrenalin is that > > > > when you are pumped up it changes the way you perceive the world, > > > > it heightens sound and movement, it changes the way blood flows > > > > in the brain so you can't think logically but can only think > > > > of running away or fighting. To enable this it drags sugars out > > > > of the liver and into the blood and draws blood from the stomach > > > > into the muscles. > > > > > > > > Best of all, any experience you have when in an aroused state > > > > gets tagged by the brain as being threatening and will cause a > > > > similar reaction if you keep having the same stimulus. This is how > > > > neuroses develop, like agoraphobia or social shyness. Anxiety > > > > can and does pollute the whole brain, mind system. Your voodoo > > > > cult member is primed from childhood to die on command. > > > > > > > > The point I'm making is, I don't see it as mind and matter, > > > > it's all the same thing to me, you can't seperate them, they > > > > don't work without each other. This is what I'm saying about > > > > consciousness, it's a function. Once you have enough brain > > > > cells you have consciousness. Emergent phenomena and it can > > > > no more be understood in terms of individual brain cells than > > > > wetness can be understood in terms of individual water molecules. > > > > > > > > > > Why do you think this proves > > > > > > something pertinent to the argument here? It's like you've just > > > > > > googled odd stuff about the brain and drawn some whoppingly > > > > > > unnecessary argument out of it. > > > > > > > > > > It's about the world of the mental and the world of meaning > > > > > (the latter I think I'd prefer), and about how those worlds > > > > > can, sometimes, extinguish the world of the "merely" physical. > > > > > Because they are equally (or maybe more) real. > > > > > > > > > >
