"The world is a crappy place" - Barry Wright "The world is as you are" - Maharishi Mahesh Yogi
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@...> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "Xenophaneros Anartaxius" <anartaxius@> > wrote: > > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, turquoiseb <no_reply@> wrote: > > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jackson <mjackson74@> wrote: > > > > > > > > If Guru Dev had lived and saw what a mockery Marshy > > > > made of what Guru Dev taught he would have kicked > > > > Marshy's ass from Delhi to Kashmir and back again. > > > > > > In all honesty, I've always assumed that the reason > > > Maharishi became so reclusive -- confining himself > > > to his room in Vlodrop and seeing almost no one > > > except over closed-circuit TV for the last years of > > > his life after his heart attack in an attempt to > > > keep living -- was because on some level, being as > > > superstitious as he was, he was terrified that after > > > he died he'd meet Guru Dev again, and have to account > > > for what he'd done in his name. > > > > I really doubt that Turq. > > It's just an opinion, not (like some here specialize in) > a declaration of Ultimate Truth. > > > But some of the later videos I saw seemed to indicate he > > had some growth, I think around his left eyebrow at some > > point. And he did not seem particularly dynamic in those > > last years. He did not have the clarity of mind of his > > younger self. > > > > Perhaps his visual appearance was kept under wraps. > > Perfect Health, you know. > > There is no "perhaps" about it. We know this because of > reports from at least one of the crew filming the videos > in those last years that they involved a great deal of > creative fakery. The camera was mounted on an apparatus > above the bed pointing down and the pillows then artfully > arranged to make it look as if he was sitting up. But > he wasn't. Supposedly in one of them Maharishi is waving > a flower like he used to and a petal falls off. Instead > of falling down towards his feet (as it would if he were > sitting), it falls "sideways," past his ear, and lodges > on the pillow there. I guess no one caught the "special > effects blooper." :-) > > I'm not ragging on him getting old and feeble, BTW. That > is likely to happen to all of us. I'm just ragging on > him taking steps to pretend to his followers that it > wasn't happening. > > > While I suspect he was superstitious, as are an enormous > > number of meditators I have known, and in fact, just > > about everyone I have ever met actually. Probably I > > have some I am not aware of. It probably was cultural, > > he shared a lot of the superstitions Indians have. > > That seems to have been the case with the upside-down > chair thang. It's considered a "bad omen" in some parts > of India. And besides, that incident happened way back > in 1968, long before he'd invented "invincibility" and > thus before he had to pretend not to be scared shitless > by things like upside-down chairs. :-) > > > It would have been interesting to know what he thought > > might happen after death, though when younger he > > presented that subject in the standard enlightenment > > form that nothing happens. > > It would indeed have been interesting, although I suspect > if you'd ever gotten him to talk about such things openly, > his beliefs would be as contradictory as his teachings > on the subject. I mean, in one lecture he'd go on and on > about "the drop returning to the ocean" and declare that > after death in enlightenment there was no possibility of > remaining individuality or reincarnation, and in the next > lecture he'd be going on about encountering Guru Dev's > or other saints' personalities after they had died. I > suspect that like most people he *held* vastly contra- > dictory ideas about such things, and like most people > he carefully avoided ever dealing with the contradictions. > > > What does happen experientially at death? Maybe we should > > ask Dr Dumbass, since we have a bona fide announcement of > > enlightenment from him. He should know, would you not say? > > Well you know my position on this. DrD is to the concept of > enlightenment as a filthy public toilet in Delhi is to the > concept of cleanliness. :-) However, I would go so far as > to say that even being *really* enlightened would give one > no idea what happens after death; only dying does that. > > There *are* traditions in which one studies and even exper- > iences subjectively the death and rebirth process before > actually dying, as a training and preparation for it. I > have trained in some of these methods, and they're defin- > itely interesting, providing at least the *subjective* > experience of death and the transition to a new birth. > But they're subjective. As with *all* subjective exper- > iences, they could have been induced by suggestion or > many other things. Even though in other contexts (without > seeking these experiences, them just happening on their > own) I have had strong waking-state flashbacks of > previous lifetimes, and even of the death-Bardo-rebirth > process. These personal experiences of mine suggest to > me that this is what happens, but again they were > *subjective*, and so I don't "know" what will happen. > > > This brings up another question about enlightenment. Does > > enlightenment have any effect on a person's superstitions? > > Does the tendency a person has to be superstitious decline > > at some point during all these practices that are said > > to lead to enlightenment? > > I would suggest, based on personal experiences of enlight- > ened states and on observation of other people going > through such states, that the enlightened states would > have little or no effect on a lifetime's worth of super- > stitions and beliefs. Or prejudices. > > > My view, at the moment, is enlightenment, that is, the > > path of enlightenment is a superstition, and when that > > runs its course, it evaporates, and everything is > > normal again. Enlightenment is the ultimate confidence > > game. > > I wouldn't put it that way exactly, but I agree with you. > > > Bernie Madoff could not cast a shadow over this con, > > which is the most divinely crafted subterfuge that > > could ever be invented, built into the structure of > > the world. > > Maybe not the "most." A belief in one life, followed > by an eternity in Hell or Heaven, is even more of a > con IMO. > > > Because it is built into to us, anyone who knows the con > > can pick up followers if they choose to inform of its > > existence. In certain ways it is a worthwhile job, > > but few people seem to have enough integrity to get > > people to the other side of the con so they are > > free of it. > > If your followers realize their own enlightenment, they > don't need you any more. Can't have that. :-) >
