--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, "authfriend" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, akasha_108 <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <snip> > > > > Once again I'll point out the very interesting > > > > phenomenon here that Barry's verbal abuse of me > > > > is at least as bad as mine of him > > > > > > Well. "faint praise" for yourself. Two wrongs don't make a > > > right, and all. > > > > Didn't say they did. I'm talking about double > > standards. > > I am still missing the point. Are you trying to establish that woman > can be as rude and abusive as men?
Geez, pay attention! This was in reference to people taking *me* to task and leaving Barry alone. > > > --not to mention > > > > that he lies and I don't--yet for some reason, I > > > > get all the flak. > > > > Everyone can make up their own mind if they think Barry lies. > > > Well, no, in most cases they have no way of > > knowing unless it's pointed out to them. > > Well, that implies that you believe you are among the few, perhaps > the only one, who can surmise if Barry is lying. It implies a > sense of superiority. Again, you haven't been paying attention. Barry has lied a blue streak here about what has gone on on alt.m.t. Nobody who hadn't been following the traffic closely on that newsgroup would have any reason to suspect he was lying. *I* know he's lying, not because I'm "superior," but simply because *I was there* when the exchanges he has misrepresented--including specific posts of mine-- took place. I wouldn't blame you in the slightest if you didn't read any of my posts exposing his lies. But you don't have any business criticizing what's been going on if you haven't been following it. <snip> > And what if Barry is lying. What is the impact? Is Barry such an > important and powerful opinion setter here that if he lied, a lot of > people would make decisions based on his statements? Barry says a > lot of stuff, as to many people. I don't base my life, or take > consequntial actions based on much of what anyone says here. I suspect you wouldn't be quite so sanguine if he told a bunch of vicious lies about you to a bunch of folks who had no basis for knowing they were lies. Especially if he'd already been doing it for years and years on another forum. People have a tendency to believe what they read if they have no source of information to the contrary. > > > > I'm beginning to wonder whether there might be > > > > some connection between this phenomenon and the > > > > defense here of strip clubs. > > > > > > Which would be? > > > > I don't conform to the expected pattern of > > female behavior, > > How so? I worked in an aggressive corporate environment for many > years and I worked with a lot of strong women. I don't have > expectations for female behavior as different from male behavior. > In my experience, there are both males and females across the full > spectrum of human virtues and foilbles. Yes, yes, I know. I'm sure many here would say the same thing. It's just that when push comes to shove, when it moves from the abstract to the specific and immediate, the reactions can tend to revert to stereotypes we thought we'd overcome. (I'm subject to some of them myself.) > so I'm taken to task for it > > (not in those terms, obviously, but I think > > that may be what's behind it). > > Just you? What about Irmeli, Ingrade (sp), IM2smart, Vashi, Sal etc. > Do you feel that these and other women posters are taken to task for > being women who transcend traditional female stereotypes? How do > you other women feel about this? Do you feel that you are taken to > task? "Transcend" isn't the appropriate term here; just "behave differently than expected." I haven't seen any of the other women posters here behaving in a manner that jolts the stereotypes. (With the brief exception of Sal, who jumped on Barry, got thoroughly trashed by him for doing so--and then vanished. Now, *that* is expected female behavior.) > > If Barry were constantly tussling with a guy, > > with the same levels of "abuse" on both sides, > > do you think folks would tend to come down on > > the guy and leave Barry strictly alone? > > I think Barry gets critiques (both deserved and undeserved, IMO). > Remember when an Anon was on him -- and barry exclaimed that the > anon was "out of control"? i have taken Barry to task for what I > see a distortions and exagerations -- on some data issues and for > example, his retelling of the Blockbuster / Enron partnership. But > I try to point out that I have other facts. Not a personal slam on > Barry himself. I don't see the value in that. You didn't answer my question. I'm referring specifically to what goes on between me and Barry. > As I think some ciriques aimed at you are sometimes on target, > othertimes not. I started this post by calling Cliff for what I > thought was an inappropriate "attack. On your mother. > > What I don't see is that critiques aimed at you are in any way > veiled attacks on your being a woman, or being a woman who > transcends old school stereotypes. (I think most woman on this lsit > have broken such bounds.) I never suggested they were "veiled attacks on [my] being a woman." I don't think anybody realizes why they're doing it. And again, I think "transcends" is not the appropriate term in this case; that's much too exalted. I pointed out before that a number of folks here can't seem to see the fights between me and Barry in anything other than a "romantic" framework--either as a couple who fight like cats and dogs and then fall into each other's arms, or as parties to a bad marriage who can't let go. That's part of what I'm talking about. > And I think all personal attacks on anyone are inappropriate. > Challenge the fats, challenge the logic. But no one should call the > poster an asshole just because their facts, logic or conclusions are > different than their own. Agreed. But there are other inspirations for personal attacks, such as when one has *been* personally attacked (especially when the attack involves lies). > > With strip clubs, I think a lot of you gents > > don't see anything wrong with them because they > > conform to expected patterns of female and male > > behavior. You see them within that context. > > Quite off base. Personally, I see things wrong with strip clubs. I > just don't happen to see exploitation and objectification. I've had the sense for awhile now that the discussion has bogged down in psychobabble, and I think it may be an avoidance tactic. <snip> > > Also possible, if he's feeling worse than usual > > about himself one day, that he'd find a way to put > > you down for trying to be helpful. > > Thats my karma. So be it. Why is it a concern of yours if he is an > ass to me? I was pointing out that your suggestion for how to deal with people's faults would probably be quite unsuccessful if applied to Barry. <snip> > If I find, via my own devices, that he is a lying weasal, I will > respond to that in my way. You could have read my posts documenting his lies, then gone to check on alt.m.t to make sure I was representing what went on accurately. It really is ironic that nobody seems to care about Barry's lies, given the enormous number of words devoted here to trashing MMY and the TMO for not telling the truth--including by Barry himself--and often with far less documentation. <snip> > > > and I, not being fuck up, and being rather superlative in most > > > areas, am here to publicly show my extensive compassion, so here > is what you should do." > > > <snicker> That's Barry's line, just for the record. > > It sure isn't mine. (Yes, I know you said you weren't > > referring to anyone in particular, but as a case in > > point.) > > Well, as discussed above, you appear to feel that you are uniquely > qualified (aka superior) to discern if and when Barry is lying, Not. As noted above. > and you seem to want and/or need to help all of us not as > insightful as you, Has nothing to do with "insight." Has to do with my being in a position to know the facts. > by telling us how we should view and react to Barry. I haven't told you how you should view him. I've told you how *I* view him, and I've presented considerable evidence for why I view him that way. Then I've asked why *I'm* the one getting dumped on. You all get to deal with Barry however you see fit. But by the same token, I get to comment on it if it appears odd to me. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. 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