Agreed. Excellent post.
________________________________ From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] RE: Quote of the day... TTFN and thanks for another super post. I'm sure the argument will range here for another thousand years. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <anartaxius@...> wrote: If classical theism refers to god characterized as an/the absolutely metaphysically ultimate being having, >> >> >>simplicity >>is all knowing >>is all powerful >>is all good >>is ultimate reality >>is transcendent >>is incorporeal >>is timeless >>is infinite >>is all intelligent >> >> >>This all sounds very grand, but it does not explain how simplicity can create >>complexity, does not explain why something that is separate from non-ultimate >>reality (the non-transcendent world) can interact with the non-transcendent >>world, and does not explain how that which is all knowing cannot explain why >>it cannot explain this. It does not explain how an all powerful being can >>produce a world with such weakness and defects and shoddy workmanship. It >>does not explain how evil can arise from something that is all good, or how >>deception and illusion can arise out of all goodness and what is ultimately >>real. It does not explain how incorporeality can make itself even known in >>the world, because in the world, all that can be imagined, invisible dragons, >>invisible cockroaches, other invisible gods etc., all appear the same (as in >>the cartoon Barry posted). It does not explain how the time bound human mind >>can conceive of timelessness, or infinity, or with our limited intelligence (having been somehow generated by something all intelligent) can even imagine something more intelligent than we are. >> >> >>simplicity / complexity >>knowing / ignorance >>powerful / weak >>good / evil >>reality / illusion >>transcendent / factual >>incorporeal / embodied >>timeless / time bound >>infinite / finite >> >> >>These opposites logically contradict one another and yet are somehow supposed >>to fit together, our world and the 'world' denoted by the token 'god', but a >>contradiction simply means that an argument is false. In other words >>classical theism is attempting to ignore half of reality by shunting it away >>under the rug and tacking the rest on a concept called 'god' which is walled >>off from the corruption of those superlatives. On the face of it, those >>superlatives look impressive. If you are a priest, a purveyor of a faith, it >>is really a great thing to be able to ride on the coattails of such a >>conception, because it makes you look good, because you have the appearance >>of being associated with something above and beyond the miserable herd you >>can look down upon. That is appearance only. >> >> >>Absolute being has nothing to do with metaphysics. Belief in something does >>not materialise that something, it is simply an idea that one thinks is true >>in the absence of whatever it is that one thinks is true. Metaphysics is an >>imaginary playground of the mind, an illusion, a make believe story, that >>exists as thought only. Absolute being has to do with concrete reality and >>experience, it is the very world you see and hear and feel, even the cockeyed >>thoughts in your head that try to explain the world. The arguments for and >>against the theistic view of reality can simply be flipped and be the >>argument for and against the atheistic view of reality. As long as you remain >>in this mode of argument it is lose, lose, because no headway can be made >>either way. Spirituality is not about trumping the atheistic argument or >>exalting the theistic one, it is about getting out the argument altogether >>and leaving it in the trash bin where it belongs. A lot of human intelligence has gone into these arguments but in the end, it is a matter of belief, of ignorance, and to accept such arguments requires one to blunt one's intelligence in some way, so you stop being curious, inquisitive, investigative, and stop at a concept called 'god' which does not explain what you do not know, but simply stops your intelligence in its tracks. >> >> >>These arguments have gone on for thousands of years and no resolution is in >>sight. If there is a solution, it cannot be found by staying in this >>evidence-free rut. >> >> >>Now, I am going to sit quietly for a while, doing nothing, and then go to a >>library, and then dinner, and then a reading of a new play. Good night all.
