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On Monday, September 8, 2014 10:21 AM, danfriedman2002 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote: ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <no_re...@yahoogroups.com> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Richard, what I'd say to Sam Harris is: that which is closest to the Truth lasts longest. What do you think lasts longest, scrutiny or Truth? Truth is gonna last no matter how little or how much scrutiny we do. (-: Which is best, oranges or fork lift trucks? Oranges are better for eating. Fork lift trucks are better for lifting. Are you thinking that I'm just a know-it-All? On Monday, September 8, 2014 9:46 AM, "'Richard J. Williams' punditster@... [FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com> wrote: On 9/8/2014 8:19 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: >>>Sure, I see what you are bringing up here. Thanks for clarifying. >>> > >>Just to clarify: "...what does not survive scrutiny cannot be real." - Sam Harris >> >>"What I'm talking about is slowly lifting up off the sofa and sitting >>in midair for two to three minutes. Or stepping up off the ground in >>the desert and then flying around several feet above the ground for >>a while." >> >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FairfieldLife/message/143231 >>> >> >> >>> >>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : >>> >>> >>>On 9/7/2014 1:50 PM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: >>> >>> >>>>>Well, I've never looked into it, but yes, I'd like to hear other eye witness accounts. > >>>>What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. >>>> >>>>Barry has stated here numerous times that anyone that practices Woo woo is just a fool and knave. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>You would think something like that would have created major buzz, such that there'd be stories floating around. > >>>>Judy said Barry was prone to fibbing. Sounds like dick-waving to me. And anyway, his account has already been proved to be fraudulent by Salya, Xeno, and Michael. And the Rama levitation events have already been discussed and trashed on alt.m.t.transcendental and on alt.sci.skeptic, so why kick a dead horse? So, I don't know why Barry is bringing up now on a thread about why you can't trust your own perceptions - maybe because Judy is no longer posting? Go figure. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>And maybe those stories are out there. I've just never looked for them. >>>>> > >>>>What I'm objecting to is, not the possibility of levitation, but that it can be performed without the "Woo woo" factor. It has already been established that woo woo is just a magician's trick. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> >>>>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>On 9/7/2014 11:39 AM, steve.sundur@... [FairfieldLife] wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>What I know is that this was Barry's direct experience, and that of many others. > >>>>>>We've only heard from one eye witness so far, Barry. Levitation events are not mentioned by Rama himself in either of his two books and Mark Laxer doesn't mention them. Barry failed to mention it in his own book! These events were pretty much debunked totally by The Amazing Randi on the alt.sci.skeptic discussion group a long time ago. >>>>>> >>>>>>'Take Me For a Ride' >>>>>>Coming Of Age In A Destructive Cult >>>>>>by Mark E. Laxer >>>>>>Outer Rim Press, 1993 >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>--In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <punditster@...> wrote : >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Have you heard about the "Indian Rope Trick?" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>In the rope trick, the magician is usually accompanied by a couple of boy assistants. In Rama's case, he seems to have required over 200 assistants, both male and female. Go figure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>"The Indian rope trick is stage magic said to have been performed in and around India during the 19th century. Sometimes described as "the world’s greatest illusion", it reputedly involved a magician, a length of rope, and one or more boy assistants...." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Indian rope trick: >>>>>>>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_rope_trick >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <turquoiseb@...> wrote : >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Cool class experiment. I should remember to try it around my artist friends. Would they be less likely to see red in a color only close to it on the spectrum, or more likely? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I have a natural fascination for this stuff, you must understand, because I have had a number of perceptions that it would have been FAR more convenient for me NOT to have had. Like seeing someone levitate. Like seeing triangular-shaped dimensional doorways open up in front of me in what a moment earlier had been the side of a mountain, and being able to see stars through the doorways. Like seeing a guy six feet in front of me "go invisible," such that I could see the desert landscape through him. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I perceived all this stuff, first-hand, many times over many years. So did hundreds, possibly thousands of other people who ran into the Rama guy and spent time with him. But was it real or was it "future Memorex," created via suggestion? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I don't know. I'll never know. Knowing what I know now about suggestion and the placebo effect and the neurochemistry of it all, OF COURSE these experiences of mine could have been the result of suggestion. But suggestion or not, they really *were* my experiences. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I saw all this stuff. I saw it so often over the years I almost got bored with it. Seriously. I remember some gal asking me in an L.A. bar one Friday night, "Whatchadoin' this weekend." I got a wild hair up my ass and decided to tell her the truth: "Tomorrow I'm going to go out into the Anza-Borrego Desert and hike around all night with a couple of hundred guys and gals I know. We like to do this because the guy leading the hike has this tendency to walk around about a foot over the sand and turn invisible and make the stars move around and that's fun to watch. What are you doin'?" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I quite remember her response. I sat there watching her react for a couple of moments, the wheels of her mind whirling around as she did the Gal Math -- "Do I want to be sitting here talking to a crazy person, or one who just thinks he's being funny when he isn't?" She decided to go for the latter, ignored everything I had just told her as if it had never been spoken, and told me what she was going to be doing this coming weekend. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I'm just riffing on this today in this canalside cafe because in retrospect it really amuses me how much we Rama students took our lifestyle for granted. Let's face it -- most supposed spiritual aspirants would give their left nut or ovary to see a siddhi performed. We saw them so often we got bored with them. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>But on another level I really DID get to see all this stuff. Many times. It's MY fuckin' experience, even if someone chooses to write it off to "suggestion" or something else. Damned if I'm ever going to apologize for having had these experiences just because someone's jealous that it was never *their* experience. The triangular-shaped dimensional doorways really *were* there in the sides of those mountains. Even if they weren't. :-) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>
