---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote :
Yep, Lenz was fucked up, no doubt about it, but I question that he aligned himself with the 'bad guys'. Despite confusion about it, and longstanding stories, there really are not any 'bad guys' who can produce any results worth noting, in the average person, with a healthy mind. I know there are "bad guys" out there. I have witnessed them both having 'infected' humans and also in non-human form. But, Lenz did not possess a healthy mind so I believe he was very vulnerable to the influences of bad stuff. Lenz was a shrewd manipulator, and used the power of suggestion brilliantly, but had no more power than the average criminal, in waking state. No particular alliances with any subtle beings - all fear and imagination. Pretty obvious when he talks about it. Building nightmares in people's minds was a specialty of his. Sure, he manipulated others to create fear and uncertainly while simultaneously feeding their ego or feeding their ego first and then flipping that on its lid. He had to do that in order to stay feeling in power and in control and needed and loved as well as feared. It is a complex mix. I have seen it, I have been a part of it. Being an active member of a good old homegrown cult certainly reveals a lot about oneself. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <awoelflebater@...> wrote : ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <fleetwood_macncheese@...> wrote : Steve, it is Lenz. Almost like he is channeling him. Lenz famously denigrated and mocked any spiritual or religious belief, save his own, which changed constantly, to keep his dweebs off balance. Barry is more about opposition and confusion, but he is not really clear on why he does it, hasn't come face-to-face with his experiences with Freddie, the public humiliation, the confusion, the turning on others in his spiritual circle. Hasn't looked in his mirror, and seen Freddie staring back, yet. Maybe one of these days. Funny you should say this. I just finished reading the whole book, from beginning to end, the Mark Laxer book chronicling his years with Lenz. It was very, very interesting. It explains a whole lot about bawee and his way of interacting here, even including his jargon and especially his viewpoints and modalities for dealing with others at FFL. But most of all I can more fully understand why bawee is the way he is. It is an interesting book and definitely worth a read, not because it is particularly well written but because it addresses some quintessential aspects of the dangers that seekers can fall victim to when faced with a ruthlessly needy 'teacher'. Take the ingredients of charisma, an accessibility to some form of power through a tapping into seductive forces and entities, a healthy dose of ego and add a group of people whose egos can be cajoled and stroked into submission and it results in an undying loyalty to some teacher who will ultimately exercise a dangerous power and influence over them. There are some spooky similarities between my time with Robin and what Mark describes in his experience with Rama. However, I believe the two men were very different although the manifestation of their dis-ease was similar in some essential ways. Rama became a train wreck long before his suicide/misstep off a dock into deep water. Based on Mark's account, I believe Rama aligned himself intentionally with the bad guys and while it gave him the ability to have unnatural influence over others as well as abilities to see things and do things beyond what I, for example, am capable of it all came with a terrible price. The guy was also a raging narcissist and extremely self indulgent and most likely sociopathic. In reading the book I found myself vacillating between disgust and pity for the man. He was terribly weak in the ways that count. I wonder how the others who were with him fared in later years. Some of those people were with him an awfully long time. Anyway, for those interested enough to check it out it is a few hours read. I find the phenomenon of guru attraction fascinating and, of course, I compare it to my own experience having joined my own brand of cult.
