The only thing I can imagine sadder than George Hammond's stories being untrue
is that they are actually true.
If his tale about all these supposedly Bestest Spiritual Types Ever making all
these plans and conducting all these experiments to improve humanity's lot
*were* true, then they are by far the biggest failures in human history.
*Nothing* they attempted worked. What a bunch of fuckups.
From: salyavin808 <no_re...@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 8, 2014 9:05 AM
Subject: Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Christian answer to ISIS and much else
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <mjackson74@...> wrote :
"I thought all those holy guys were way off the mark in its importanceas
something they needed to tell us. I would have preferred a cure forcancer!"
Having been involved in new age stuff for a good many years, I must say this is
one of the most telling points.
All the so-called ascended masters, angels and archangels and masters who are
no longer in a body are real big on all sorts of esoteric bullshit, but real
short on real time practical knowledge and common sense help for those of us
here on earth. That's because its all bullshit except for some flowery words to
make people feel good and usually to get them to give up their money or sex.
Did anyone ever ask the "ascended" where their energy came from? Unless they
are growing food and eating it they are going to run out of steam very quickly
without an exchange of energy in metabolism but how would a "light being" eat
anyway?
It's answers like that I'd like to hear but most people prolly too overawed to
be talking to The Big Cheese to wonder about the simple physics of it,
Another major question for George (or anyone in the know) would be this
re-incarnation contradiction: If we do re-incarnate, how come all these holy
dudes were hanging out somewhere else instead of being reborn? It's all too
convenient - not that I ever believed it - but you can't have both rebirth and
an afterlife can you?
It's all just too easy to shoot down. From: "curtisdeltablues@...
[FairfieldLife]" <FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com>
To: FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 7, 2014 3:21 PM
Subject: [FairfieldLife] Re: The Christian answer to ISIS and much else
Nice talking points on George, I'm glad you took the time to post them. As food
for thought it was certainly a success. I liked your comparison with literature
and if he had presented it as a dramatic one man show he had created, I would
feel differently about the whole thing. He is a creative guy and has a sense of
drama. It would have impressed me more if that is how it had been presented.
But it wasn't. (BTW none of this is presented as a counter to anything you
said. I am using your enjoyable post as a writing prompt without acknowledging
all the points you made.)
It was presented as being an actual discussion with the not so dead Maharishi
on the other side. That claim needed an epistemological ramp for the rest of us
and we never got one. It was sort of breezily addressed in the beginning that
we could believe whatever we wanted. He also made the case that the quality of
the information itself should be its own verification. I didn't hear anything
that would require resorting to a supernatural source for these ideas and
images. He seem perfectly capable on his own having written numerous books
containing many of the ideas presented as coming from Maharishi.
I could tell from talking with people at the event that George's business
success was an influencing factor on people taking him seriously. I don't know
how I feel about that. In general I am wary of even doctors writing diet books,
since they receive so little nutrition training. I think people tend to get
more credit than is deserved for being successful in one field and then trying
to transfer the feeling of credibility to another unrelated area. It is one of
our cognitive gaps probably created out of our social hierarchy aware primate
nature. Our brains were really not built to deal with the kind of distinctions
we are faced with today. Man has lots of bananas so must be alpha!
The case for why we should take what he said seriously was for him to make. I
find it curious that none of the smarty pants holy traditions dudes could
anticipate that such an argument was missing but was deserved. It sort of put
us in the position of unwarranted faith in a guy I didn't even know. That
doesn't sound like respectful epistemological awareness to me.
I told George that although I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, I could
think of all sorts of ways to present this in a way that would be viewed with
more credibility from the movement or from reasonable people. He didn't address
my point but restated some of the history of presenting it to Hagelin. I told
him that I thought it was Maharishi's responsibility to present it in a way the
people he personally chose to run his movement could accept. By the time he
gave it to George, it was too late. George thought the knowledge stood on its
own as its proof. I told him that I thought any of us could have created these
ideas, they did not require supernatural agency. Then we had to go.
On one hand we have the possibility that it was all as George presented, a
discussion with dead people about how we should view life. On the other we have
all the vagaries of the human mind with its fantastic generative abilities
within and outside our consciousness.
Coming back to your example of literature, I know which one rings truest to me.
I think he made way too much of a big deal aboutfear. Fear is my friend when I
need it, and not a dominate emotion thatrules my life otherwise. I don't have
any complaints for how fear helpsme keep my eye on the ball of survival and
don't need any more or anyless. I thought all those holy guys were way off the
mark in its importance as something they needed to tell us. I would have
preferred a cure for cancer!
Thanks again for continuing the discussion. I find many levels of fascination
concerning how people view this event. Any other perspectives you want to share
would be welcome.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <seerdope@...> wrote :
Possibly there is more to it. Or not.
I watched the Hammond video last night. Its easy to dismiss him and cast him
off as delusional(1). Yet art and literature are not real either, even still,
they may open us up to new ways of viewing the world, and induce new ideas and
internal hypotheses -- even if the artist was bat-assed crazy. My take away
is that while his story is rather far-fetched, and he may be delusional, some
useful points may have emerged, both directly and from subsequent pondering.
One Hammond theme is that religious founders/leaders' messages and strategies
were experimental attempts focused on incrementally improving a select set of
problems for specific time, place and group of people, not universal truths
applicable for all ages, problems and peoples -- and as such these targeted
strategies had some unintended and unexpected negative consequences that
continue through to today. And that attempts to apply such strategies to
today's world are major steps backwards, not forward. He suggests righteous
anger as an example of a method used in a particular era of the old testament
-- focussed on combatting a perceived major problem of lethargy and laziness of
a particular time and place. Not stated as such, increasing rajas to reduce
tomas might be the yogic parallel. When tomas is reduced, the method is no
longer applicable. But these focussed methods such as righteous anger endured
past their usefulness, took on a life of their own, and create larger problems
than the original ones intended to be solved.
Second, he dismisses the notion that these strategies were created by an
all-knowing all powerful deity. Rather he suggests that they were brainstormed
and thought out by by good intentioned, smart, yet limited individuals. Jehovah
is presented as a man -- who was inaccurately deified by later "faithful"
generations and centuries. (And his premise that Jehovah and Allah are the
same, in his model, suggests the violence-prone parallels of some sects of all
of the Abrahamic religions.)
Third, it was suggested that fear is the greatest block to social, individual
and spiritual progress. My take is that irrational arguments and actions,
particularly when networked across many nodes in a mob mentality situation, are
driven by, are a response to, inner fear, particularly fear of change. For
example, rapid change in culture adaptation of new technology, etc may cause
many to cling to outdated traditions, self-help / religious models as antidotes
to inner fear of change. Some good examples are the ones cited in your post on
religious fundamentalism.
And that while lashing out at the irrational is reasonable and rational, a
personal trait -- and one which I observe many seem to share, the impetus
towards such may be rooted in fear of irrational mindsets and groups, fear of
loss when such gets out of hand, spirals out of control, the world run amuck by
the irrational mob (too many examples to list). Ultimately decomposed also to a
fear of change.
Fourth, Hammond premises that the process of "turning within" whether TM, any
meditation, prayer, any means that enable us to better know and understand our
own minds -- both its limits and more limitless aspects, is the most efficient
and perhaps singular antidote to fear. And he suggests that there are many
effective methods to turn within (currently available and yet to be derived)
devoid of traditional, cultural and religious trappings. (And that within
traditional cultures and religions there are existing practices, such as
prayer, which can (though not always) turn the mind within and quiet the chaos
of more manifest chatter and "noise". Consequently, a solution path for
reducing fear of change-- both among the irrational adherents to outdated
cultural/religious practices and dogma as a, as well as fear by more the more
rational -- who have (possibly unacknowledged) fear of the former -- the
uncertainty and chaos of the irrational mob, may be deriving and applying,
making more universally available and helping to support adaptation of such,
cultural and dogma free methods of turning within.
(1) I was surprised to read Hammond's bio -- 25 years as successful corporate
lawyer working on global mergers and acquisitions -- clearly an odd career
culmination for the alleged soul of Brighu, Jacob, one of Jesus' apostles,
Plato, Johnathan Swift and Mark Twain. Yet the career, and his nominal clarity
as a speaker distinguishes him from babbling street person babbling and
run-of-the-mill new-age crazy.
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