Share & Jason Share, I do believe you never consider anything as a statement of logic. Settling for the sense of it on resonance, which is really a subtle sense of feeling allows one to bypass figuring out what it might mean. If beyond thought and feeling, that puts it beyond understanding. I myself do not think much about this any more, but it comes up time to time. A contradiction (con = against, & diction = speech) is a statement that says x is so and x is not so at the same time, which is nonsense.
Jason's response shows more analysis. Determinism is the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes external to the will. While free will is the power of acting without the constraint of necessity or fate; the ability to act at one's own discretion. This sets individuality against the universe. The universe can be regarded as having either natural laws which mindlessly govern activity in a mechanical fashion, or as having an intentional stance, having a mind which determines action through will, such as gods are supposed to have. Individual will is an intentional stance that opposes universal laws or the activity of the gods. One can question whether the universe as a whole has will in the intentional stance sense, because proving gods (1 or more) exist seems out of the question. That nature's activity seems rather overpowering in a deterministic sense is pretty obvious, but why that is is not. Quantum mechanics shows us a certain proportion of indeterminacy on a microscopic scale. This is not apparent on the macroscopic scale, but it seems to mean things will never repeat themselves in quite the same way but the variations on the macroscopic scale will be subtle to say the least. The chance, or randomness of particle interaction is not will because there seems to be no intention behind it, it just happens. It is also constrained statistically so it cannot be said to be free either. Recent experiments with the human brain seem to show our sense of will is illusory, that the brain comes to make certain kinds of decisions in a mechanical way, and the results of this 'decision' comes into awareness after the fact, often seconds, as much as seven seconds after the fact. That means consciousness is passive, and does nothing, since it does not know what is happening until after the deed is done. This could hardly be said to be the activity of will. If anything, it is a demonstration of the effect of universal determinism, unless we conclude that micro quantum events introduce an element of chance. But has we note, chance is not a constrained by the concept of will, it bypasses will altogether, but is statistically constrained, which in a sense means its effect is at least partially determined, it is not free in the sense of unconstrained, its functioning is not at its own discretion. Chance has no mind. So we are left with mechanical determined universal action without an intentional stance behind it, both for the universe and for us, but we have the idea in our heads, that we have an intentional stance, even if it is not really there. And then there is that throw of the quantum dice, which prevents us from ever figuring out exactly what is happening when we look deeply into the matter. As for the concept of karmic rebound, not sure how that works or if it exists. If something happens, then something else happens because things are interconnected. I just lifted a pen off my desk, and then put it back down on the desk. What is the karmic rebound here? I have no idea what that would mean in this situation. Suppose a universe in which each person lives, and dies, and is not immortal and vanishes forever at death (kind of like ours). Suppose this person commits a murder in this universe, and is never caught, never even suspected, and this person subsequently lives a happy life filled with joy until he/she dies. What is the karmic rebound in this situation? ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <jason_green2@...> wrote : This is a little difficult to explain, but I'll try. When you perform an action, the karmic rebound is certain. However, when, where and how that rebound will occur cannot be predicted as existence itself does not know about it. There is an element of randomness here that is difficult to comprehend and is unexplainable. If you study evolution carefully, you will notice that evolution itself is partially deterministic and partially random. There is a broad set of laws and yet randomness plays a part. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <sharelong60@...> wrote : Xeno, I don't understand it as a statement of logic. I understand it as a koan, a statement meant to take the mind beyond logic to a deeper truth. I find there is a level of life where all contradictions exist together. It is beyond thought and feeling. I sometimes call it knowingness, but resonance might be a more descriptive word. --- <anartaxius@...> wrote : That is of course Share, a logical contradiction; hence, false. A statement like this acts as a metaphor for a certain way of understanding how the universe runs, provided you can penetrate the metaphor for its real significance. What has determinism? What has free will? Since they are diametrically opposed in function, what could this mean, if it means anything at all? Since the statement is literally untrue, why does it feel right to you? Is that feeling correct, or is it based on some hidden assumption which allows you accept a falsehood. --- <sharelong60@...> wrote : ...I heard Maharishi say: 100% determinism and 100% free will. That feels right to me.