"..bent upon samâdhi and liberation had direct experience with a cosmic
intelligence that was accessible for receiving teachings and grace."
Great FFL thread, Empty. I appreciate your taking the time to post it here.
Yes, evidently these experiences seem way more than just some fluctuations of
brain activity or psychological state like skeptics may pose and hope in theory
about 'Miracles'. 'Sidhis', so to speak, in life evidently are real and
objective enough to those who witness/experience them. Obama gave a talk on
this the other day in South Carolina, on the spiritual experience of 'grace'.
Fleetwood on Batgap and formerly of FFL used to talk about this too here on FFL
and on The_Peak from experience. I see now in the recent turmoil of FFL he has
deleted some of his really great expositions on grace in 'awakening' by
comparison with spiritual skeptics and apostates. 'Grace' evidently is a
recurring theme of experience in the discourses of sages and the enlightened
through time. Makes some good sense to me too by [repeatable] science of
experience and considering this true or real enough makes the discussion a
whole lot the more interesting and relevant. -JaiGuruYou
yifuxero writes:
good points on the supposed miracles of Jesus.'. Let's assume such miracles
did take place. If so, this is evidence of a dead lineage in terms of
repeatability (one of the criteria for modern scientific evaluation). If you
have been watching the "AD" series on NBC (produced by R. Downey? and her
husband); there's the ongoing story from ACTS in which we have several strings
of parallel narratives: First, Saul becomes "Paul" after his conversion on
the road to Damascus, but the situation becomes to contentious for him in
Jerusalem so he departs on his journeys to convert the Gentiles.
. Then, Peter and James continue in Jerusalem with the other disciples but
have ongoing conflicts with Pontius Pilate and Caiphas, the high Priest of the
Temple.
. Against this background, Peter is one of the few who can actually perform
miracles on the same level or close to that of Jesus. (raising people from the
dead for example).
. In any event, it's been almost 2 millennia since these events transpired and
the original disciples of Jesus have failed to transmit the knowledge and power
of these Sidhis to their successors. What we have after almost 2,000 years is
very few miracles (in spite of claims by Evangelicals): ; and only a set of
beliefs which supposedly can save people after their deaths. No claims are
made to assist people in circumventing bad karma before death. They
(Christians) may go to Heaven after death but in the meantime, they are subject
to the vicissitudes of bad karma like everybody else. I haven't seen too many
people being raised from the dead, nor walking on water, nor turning water into
wine.
..On the other hand, MMY's claims along the lines of Shankara and Patanjali
are more modest; but at least there's an unbroken Tradition of Gurus since
Shankara. The many claims of MMY as to the benefits of TM are another matter,
a story for a later date.
jr_esq writes: ebill,You appear to be certain that what you say is true. How
do you know this is the Truth? Can you walk on water? Can you turn water to
wine? Can you heal the sick? Can you materialize anywhere at will?
yifuxero writes:
Thanks, emptybill for the brilliant essay on what I consider to be the major
source of irreconcilable differences in the wrold, namely: 1. the Adam and Eve
story, an allegorical model pitting evolutionary trial and effort ("Satan", in
the iconic kundalini snake image) vs blind faith in the Tyrant King, and (2)
the deviant Ismael. To these we can add a third source of problems: Orders
given by the Tyrant King speaking from the Burning Bush to Moses, that the
indigenous peoples of the Promised Land were to be wiped out, to the last man,
woman, and child....murdered. Joshua of course took up this program of
decimation after Moses failed to come into the Promised Land (having misused
the Staff of Aaron).
..In modern times, Post WWI and WWII, we can credit the Scorpion Land Brits
for creating a phoney state of Iraq which should actually be three separate
nations: Kurds, Sunnis, and Shias. (the Americans supported this phoney state
after WW11 and continue to this day..
. Then, there's the question of the concept of Substitutionary Atonement,
which I assume you are not a "believer" in. In Nichiren's Buddhism, the death
of Jesus on the Cross was "His" (ie. YHVH's) own bad karma - through his Son.
It appears YHVH doesn't even have the guts to personally Incarnate on Earth to
act as recompense for wiping out all of the indigenous tribes of the Promised
Land.
Last but not least, there's the question of "sins" - a seemingly infinite
list of offenses starting with the 10 Commandments (but many hundreds more some
of which are listed in Leviticus). Apparently, the sin concept leaves out
something very important: bad karma! For example, in Evangelical
Christianity, the worst of sinners can supposedly be "saved" on the spot
through confession, repentance, and accepting Jesus as one's
savior. My observation is that even if this were true, nobody can escape the
completely impersonal "justice" of karmic Law. Christians are apparently
subject to this law like everybody else.
. Then, there's the question of Enlightenment and pure Consciousness, I.e.
where does this fit into mainstream (Evangelical, Roman Catholic, Protestants);
Christianity and the Bible. Apart from a few Christian Gnostics, the numbers
of which in the entire world one could count on the fingers of both hands (and
perhaps the toes), the Bible does not address this avenue of evolution.
---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <emptyb...@yahoo.com> wrote :
Our Western notions about “God” emerge through the theological lens of Semitic
Monotheism - Judism, Christianity, and Islam. That’s why we so casually pitch
forth the term “God” rather than “the gods” – as our Greek and Roman ancestors
once did. Any Semite god is fundamentally a tyrant in the Greek “polis”
(city-state) sense of that term. This means a Semitic “God” is a monarch who at
will exercises power in a ruthless and pitiless manner – as an oppressive,
harsh, arbitrary person.
Opposite this cruel despot steps forth the weeping Jesus – wounded in his
“heart” by our iniquitous and malevolent self-will. Won’t you open your
darkened, ego-obsessed soul to the bleeding Jesu and put his cross in place of
your own wickedly God-Defying “I”? Of course, if you fail to replace your
“You” with his “Him”, Jesu, like maniacal God, will then throw you into the
hell-pit and to torture you with eternal fire! Finally, you can count on this
unbearable, endless torment for as long as eternity lasts – all done just
because He can.
Opposite this monstrously Semite God-tyrant, is the concept of Ishvara in
Patanjali’s Yoga. The term Ishvara means ruler, owner, master. Patanjali’s
Ishvara is a specific and different (viseša) purusha never possessing
afflictions, the results of karmic acts or deposits of habitual tendencies. As
such, Ishvara was never considered a creator in the Semite sense of an
extra-cosmic “bringer into being” and ruler or overseer.
Apparently, Patanjali included the concept of Ishvara because yogins bent upon
samâdhi and liberation had direct experience with a cosmic intelligence that
was accessible for receiving teachings and grace. Patanjali’s codification of
the sound (shabda) of Ishvara and the means to its realization was Patanjali’s
contribution to direct yogic realization through repetition of “pranava
(om-kara) and contemplation of its meaning”.
Contrary to this, while Buddhists believe in many puny “worldly” type devas,
they deny a cosmic creator/ruler. The Dalai Lama likes to call it “the god
concept”. In spite of this denial, Tantric Buddhists do indeed use the primal
sound “om”, seeing it as a cosmic sound and as a conceptual construct for
transcendence.
All of this just shows how insular and self-involved the Semite-rooted concept
of Judeo-Christo-Islamic “Godism” has become and just how widely it has
infiltrated our historical and current thinking. This concept of the tyrant-God
is not dead but is still highly alive - quickened by Muslim attempts at Islamic
domination of Europe.
If you are a meditator from the culture of the post-American revolution, you
should consider the only fitting action against such a Semitic tyrant-king …
assassinate Him!
